XSF Discussion - 2022-10-14


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  767. lovetox We need to get some author onto xep-0292
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  770. lovetox the XEP is in my opinion not even remotely doing what we need
  771. lovetox it moves vCard to pubsub, but invents new IQ semantic for get/set, instead of using pubsub
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  774. lovetox maybe reminder why we need this in pubsub
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  779. lovetox 1. we need privacy settings, which pubsub gives us (XEP actively says it the community decided AGAINST privacy settings)
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  782. lovetox 2. We dont need servers to implement custom vCard4 support for this to work
  783. lovetox which makes adoption *really* easy
  784. singpolyma Yes, we just use pubsub for vcard4 and ignore the special iq
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  791. lovetox yeah problem is people moving to that, and i dont want them to waste there effort
  792. MattJ lovetox: happy authoring 🙂
  793. MattJ You sound sufficiently motivated
  794. lovetox the custom IQ semantic can only be optional
  795. lovetox its insane to me that this iq semantic was introduced 12 years ago
  796. lovetox talk about slow moving eco system
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  799. singpolyma I think the custom IQ should be cut from the xep and it should specifically say that pep works
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  802. lovetox MattJ, i know i could take the time to do a MR
  803. lovetox I always feel im not so good with words when trying to write such texts
  804. nicomuc Does that mean that the full vcard will be part of the pubsub#event, or will the ‘empty item as update notification’ still be valid?
  805. lovetox we should hire technical writers
  806. MattJ This is something on my list for Board to discuss
  807. MattJ We used to have one, and they were the Editor
  808. MattJ Then the Editor role became... what it became
  809. moparisthebest lovetox, just do it, any text is better than nothing
  810. moparisthebest besides if you write some incorrect grammar 15 people will trip over each other trying to fix it :D
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  813. singpolyma lovetox: if you want I could draft something. The process is just send a PR to the xep in some GitHub repo?
  814. moparisthebest yep!
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  816. singpolyma And I guess this is allowed for anything pre-stable?
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  818. moparisthebest getting it merged is someone else's problem hehe
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  821. moparisthebest iirc the shortcut is asking the author if it's ok, otherwise council can force it through or something? been awhile
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  825. lovetox nicomuc, the eventnotification thing has to be also looked again
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  835. lovetox it makes not sense like it is now
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  837. lovetox what a client wants is to know when a vcard has new content it doesnt know
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  839. lovetox the event like it is described in the xeps just tells you on coming online "there is some vcard"
  840. lovetox means its not really useful, so yes if you want to do this right, you probably would need some kind of metadata node
  841. lovetox that tells you the timestamp or hash of the vcard
  842. singpolyma That's a generic pubsub/pep issue, not specific to vcard
  843. singpolyma The xep mostly just needs to define the pep node name and say "use vcard4 XML in this pep node"
  844. lovetox yes we could try something like, maxitems=1, then always publish with a itemid=hash of vcard
  845. singpolyma "how to hash XML" is a whole thing, but yeah, not specific to vcard problem IMO
  846. lovetox yeah hash is maybe to complicated
  847. lovetox but everything else is tricky
  848. lovetox hm, actually not, just put a UUID in there
  849. lovetox we just need to make sure that subsequent publishes dont have the same id
  850. singpolyma Right
  851. lovetox then a sentence about node config so events dont send payload, and i think we achieved greatness
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  854. singpolyma Sounds fine. I don't really see why you don't want payload sent, but doesn't affect my current use case either way so fine
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  859. lovetox because the use case is that you send +notfiy in presence
  860. lovetox this means on coming online the server will send you the last event for every user
  861. lovetox if the payload is in, it means you get for every user in your roster a full vcard that you often already know
  862. lovetox its the same reason we use a devicelist node for omemo, or metadata node for avatars
  863. singpolyma +notify sends even if it sent to you before? Gross, but ok
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  865. Zash no device tracking, especially not by remote servers, so they can't know if they sent you this thing already or if you're a new device with the same caps as another
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  870. singpolyma Zash: well, I expected just like normal pubsub they send to you when the publish happens and that's it
  871. singpolyma You have to know what you follow and fetch to catch-up later otherwise
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  873. MattJ Then clients have to make a request to every node of every contact they are interested in
  874. Zash Or we could do what ejabberd did, except negotiate it, and send notifications to the account and use MAM
  875. singpolyma Zash: right. Stop using headline if people actually want the content always
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  881. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0312.html is another possibility
  882. Zash more stateless
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  884. singpolyma Hmm, yeah
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