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emus
👍
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lovetox
We need to get some author onto xep-0292
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lovetox
the XEP is in my opinion not even remotely doing what we need
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lovetox
it moves vCard to pubsub, but invents new IQ semantic for get/set, instead of using pubsub
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lovetox
maybe reminder why we need this in pubsub
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lovetox
1. we need privacy settings, which pubsub gives us (XEP actively says it the community decided AGAINST privacy settings)
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lovetox
2. We dont need servers to implement custom vCard4 support for this to work
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lovetox
which makes adoption *really* easy
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singpolyma
Yes, we just use pubsub for vcard4 and ignore the special iq
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lovetox
yeah problem is people moving to that, and i dont want them to waste there effort
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MattJ
lovetox: happy authoring 🙂
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MattJ
You sound sufficiently motivated
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lovetox
the custom IQ semantic can only be optional
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lovetox
its insane to me that this iq semantic was introduced 12 years ago
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lovetox
talk about slow moving eco system
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singpolyma
I think the custom IQ should be cut from the xep and it should specifically say that pep works
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lovetox
MattJ, i know i could take the time to do a MR
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lovetox
I always feel im not so good with words when trying to write such texts
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nicomuc
Does that mean that the full vcard will be part of the pubsub#event, or will the ‘empty item as update notification’ still be valid?
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lovetox
we should hire technical writers
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MattJ
This is something on my list for Board to discuss
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MattJ
We used to have one, and they were the Editor
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MattJ
Then the Editor role became... what it became
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moparisthebest
lovetox, just do it, any text is better than nothing
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moparisthebest
besides if you write some incorrect grammar 15 people will trip over each other trying to fix it :D
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singpolyma
lovetox: if you want I could draft something. The process is just send a PR to the xep in some GitHub repo?
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moparisthebest
yep!
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singpolyma
And I guess this is allowed for anything pre-stable?
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moparisthebest
getting it merged is someone else's problem hehe
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moparisthebest
iirc the shortcut is asking the author if it's ok, otherwise council can force it through or something? been awhile
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lovetox
nicomuc, the eventnotification thing has to be also looked again
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lovetox
it makes not sense like it is now
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lovetox
what a client wants is to know when a vcard has new content it doesnt know
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lovetox
the event like it is described in the xeps just tells you on coming online "there is some vcard"
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lovetox
means its not really useful, so yes if you want to do this right, you probably would need some kind of metadata node
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lovetox
that tells you the timestamp or hash of the vcard
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singpolyma
That's a generic pubsub/pep issue, not specific to vcard
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singpolyma
The xep mostly just needs to define the pep node name and say "use vcard4 XML in this pep node"
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lovetox
yes we could try something like, maxitems=1, then always publish with a itemid=hash of vcard
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singpolyma
"how to hash XML" is a whole thing, but yeah, not specific to vcard problem IMO
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lovetox
yeah hash is maybe to complicated
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lovetox
but everything else is tricky
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lovetox
hm, actually not, just put a UUID in there
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lovetox
we just need to make sure that subsequent publishes dont have the same id
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singpolyma
Right
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lovetox
then a sentence about node config so events dont send payload, and i think we achieved greatness
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singpolyma
Sounds fine. I don't really see why you don't want payload sent, but doesn't affect my current use case either way so fine
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lovetox
because the use case is that you send +notfiy in presence
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lovetox
this means on coming online the server will send you the last event for every user
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lovetox
if the payload is in, it means you get for every user in your roster a full vcard that you often already know
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lovetox
its the same reason we use a devicelist node for omemo, or metadata node for avatars
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singpolyma
+notify sends even if it sent to you before? Gross, but ok
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Zash
no device tracking, especially not by remote servers, so they can't know if they sent you this thing already or if you're a new device with the same caps as another
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singpolyma
Zash: well, I expected just like normal pubsub they send to you when the publish happens and that's it
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singpolyma
You have to know what you follow and fetch to catch-up later otherwise
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MattJ
Then clients have to make a request to every node of every contact they are interested in
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Zash
Or we could do what ejabberd did, except negotiate it, and send notifications to the account and use MAM
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singpolyma
Zash: right. Stop using headline if people actually want the content always
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Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0312.html is another possibility
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Zash
more stateless
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singpolyma
Hmm, yeah