XSF Discussion - 2022-11-05

Fully aware that this might not be the sophistication looked for in tooling, but unless we're going to do this in Java, I gave doing XEP-0001 validation my best scripting shot in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1242

I'm sad that no action is taken to find someone to replace editors while the dust is still in the air. Instead all I see is bandaids being applied here and there (maybe), or saying it's hard. I fear it'll come back to what it was when the dust settles

But I'm not surprised, we've seen this happening before

pep.: if you recall, Jonas's email specifically recommended against simply finding a replacement editor

And I trust that judgement, based on who its coming from, and also my own perception of that role

Guus: looks like a pretty good start on that script. One thing I would note is that you don't seem to be using any bashisms so could use /bin/sh instead of /bin/bash -- I might suggest a shellcheck run to be sure, but I'm pretty confident

Yeah, it's my understanding that the perception is that the editor role has up to now mostly been a band-aid for not having a good build process so if we fix that the the editor role becomes much easier to fill ✏

(where I say "we" for no good reason because I'm just lurking here not yet being very helpful :P)

singpolyma: you might very well be right. Can you leave your feedback on the PR please? I'd first like to get some feedback if this is a feasible approach, before investing more time on this particular implementation.

Yeah, I like the approach but I'm not an expert. I will try to remember to leave PR feedback if still relevant when I am next near a GitHub account

Guus: I think tooling in Java would be fine too

It's going to end up running in a docker container anyway, who cares what binaries need to be in there

For sure, write in whatever is easiest for you. But shell + xmllint does appear to be doing the job

I don't think Java would be a particularly good choice for simple scripting. The overhead of compilation, dependencies, etc. is significant.

MattJ, jonas’: if you can indicate if this isn't the wrong way to go about, then I'll try to finish this particular script.

(Or anyone else that is likely to be involved in integrating this)

ok, then lets face it. what comes with setting up a contract?

what does it need and why is it complicated?

emus, first, who are we setting up a contract with?

Guus, a quick glance suggests this is great, exactly what we need - thanks!

> MattJ: > emus, first, who are we setting up a contract with? If there is actually a consensus that we want to pursue this i bet we can find a person who knows how to set it up. I think the thing that we cant start looking for somebody on a maybe.

> emus, first, who are we setting up a contract with? I think this is basically the only hard part. Finding someone and negotiating a rate. Like, I know there are several people in this room who do freelance or run consultancies (including me). So *maybe* we don't have to look far, but all depends on rate and what people are already doing, I dunno

But also so far it seems like at least a few people here are doing substantial parts of it for free so maybe we're playing checken with how far that will get first?

If the XSF wanted it, we'd put the word out and interview people yeah, not entirely sure what's hard about it. If it happens we indeed don't find anybody for it then so be it. But let's not say it's too hard before something is even started

pep.: Certainly not too hard, no

But someone has to do it, it won't do itself

Yep. The thing is if the xsf doesnt want to hire we cant really start any searching. I just hope the volunteers are not over streched.

Same here. It's not the first time this happens, and it won't be the last

And it's not just about editors

For XSF to spend money I assume we need a board vote?

That would be my guess too

I'm pretty sure you'll find everyone on Board is on board with onboarding someone to work on this

MattJ: nice one

I don't really understand the comments about the XSF not wanting to hire. We've talked about it lots in the past, and it's something most people are in favour of

By hire I mean as freelance, not becoming an employer

That's a bigger line to cross, and it's pretty obvious we're not ready for that ✏

Nor do I think we need it

But short-term contracts for specific projects have been brought up many times and I don't think Board has ever said no to a concrete proposal

But we rarely get concrete proposals

Just "we should do this"

Which is a statement most people agree with, but nobody can answer right now who we should hire (or interview), what they should do, or how much we pay them or for how long

Managing contracts like that successfully is not without overhead

And right now I suspect if anyone is going to manage to organise such a contract, it's going to be me... most of the current board are not particularly active

But I also have the skills to do what's needed directly (if not the time)

So I just made a start, it's the easiest and quickest option

Not sustainable, but we don't necessarily need it to be

I've been working with Jonas to refine what concrete work is needed to meet the requirements, and I think things are becoming a lot clearer now

If someone in the community were to raise their hand and say that they have the skills and are available to implement this (voluntarily or at a reasonable rate) I don't see any reason we wouldn't take up that offer

Or if someone wants to perform the task of tracking someone down and getting contracts sorted, that would be a way forward too

In the absence of either of those things happening, we'll just continue as we are, with volunteers doing what they can, when they can

EOF, it's time for bed 🙂

Yeah same here. I would say even if the xsf doesnt put the word out it would be great to have a guarantee that the offer we are going to say to somebody *is* going to happen and its not theoretical.

> If someone in the community were to raise their hand and say that they have the skills and are available to implement this (voluntarily or at a reasonable rate) I don't see any reason we wouldn't take up that offer What I'm saying is I think this is the wrong way around. The XSF decides to get somebody on board and puts the word out, not the other way around. People aren't going to show up magically. If you manage to do it yourselves, then great, just don't die on us please ✏