XSF Discussion - 2022-11-10


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  695. emus Kind reminder: Tue, 6th of December XMPP Open End of the year talk 7pm, CEST Please announce your topics to present and discuss, even though we are open for a general MeetUp mentalitiy. Some small announced starters and the open fade out would be great. Cheers
  696. emus I will likely summarize a bit of my work
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  726. jonas’ emus, what's the venue?
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  730. emus Via jitsi I believe. I will announce more officially later
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  735. jonas’ which jitsi? :-)
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  742. emus :D I am happy you cannot await the event! 😅 I will send a mail later - deal? :-)
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  745. jonas’ just wanting to make sure that this is a resolved question :-).
  746. emus Thabks, I suggets after my mail we can restart the discussion if required
  747. emus Thanks, I suggets after my mail we can restart the discussion if required
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  801. edhelas https://prose.org/
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  805. mjk so Poezio has an antagonist :)
  806. mjk ...and Roezio a friend
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  832. mdosch > Note that as the state of XMPP in Rust is still pretty immature, we could not find any sufficiently-advanced pure-Rust XMPP client library. Therefore, we opted for the excellent C-based libstrophe library. However, depending on a non-Rust binding creates a lot of overhead for the developer, thus we plan to create a pure-Rust port of libstrophe in the near future. We aim for a similar API to libstrophe, as we like its simplicity for the developer and how lightweight it is. Isn't there someone here working on a rust lib?
  833. wurstsalat https://gitlab.com/xmpp-rs/xmpp-rs this?
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  836. mdosch Probably. Reasing 'WIP' it's probably one they consider immature.
  837. mdosch Probably. Reading 'WIP' it's probably one they consider immature.
  838. mjk so instead of contributing, they took libstrophe and rrir 😮‍💨️
  839. mjk so instead of contributing, they took libstrophe and riir 😮‍💨️
  840. wurstsalat there seems to be support for many things already: https://xmpp.org/software/libraries/xmpp-rs/ [Show supported XEPs]
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  851. mdosch > so instead of contributing, they took libstrophe and riir 😮‍💨️ Not riir, wiir. Wrap it in rust.
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  860. mjk yeah, for now. but I was referring to "we plan to create a pure-Rust port of libstrophe"
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  868. jonas’ derp
  869. jonas’ huh
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  890. moparisthebest so, just what nearly 100% of xmpp clients do ?
  891. moparisthebest either write their own library from scratch, or fork one and end up maintaining it
  892. singpolyma Yeah, I've never understood why almost no client is based on one of the high quality libraries thrt exist. I've always guessed the clients maybe predate the libraries but 🤷‍♂️
  893. moparisthebest the only answer that makes sense is because none of the libraries are suitable for making a client
  894. singpolyma To be fair I'm going to end up maintaining the two libraries we use,
  895. moparisthebest they are great for bots and tools etc but not for clients
  896. singpolyma But that's because existing maintainers moved on
  897. singpolyma moparisthebest: maybe? But all I want out of a library is do handle the stream and XML parsing and other bog-common stuff. I think maybe many of them try to do too much
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  899. moparisthebest 100% that
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  901. Guus Ralph has suggested over and over that we should dramatically improve the 'how to get started with library XYZ on platform ABC' documentation. Maybe there's value in that.
  902. Guus Giving people better opportunities to figure out that there's pre-existing stuff to re-use, when they start with a new client.
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  920. Fishbowler That sounds like fun. I'm not well-versed enough to lead something like this, but definitely happy to contribute. Most of my experience is from the server POV, and this looks like a great way to learn more about clientside handling.
  921. Zash Related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law ? With a small enough group doing a thing, separating it into different projects (e.g. separate client and generic library) creates overhead.
  922. Daniel I'm using an xmpp library for a work project and I fairly quickly ran into bugs and things the library didn't let me do that I needed to do. So at this point I would have probably needed to fork the lib to make it better tailored to my needs and fix bugs.
  923. Daniel And then I have to understand the architecture and live with the design decisions they made
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  925. Fishbowler Maybe I might try working with Smack in Java and documenting some progress.
  926. Fishbowler Although, as you've pointed out, it might end up as more of a driver for Smack changes than it is for creating a good doc.
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  939. flow ideally a library provides a sensible amount of low level interfaces and modularity, which allows you to decide in a fine-grained manner which parts of the lib you want to use
  940. flow of course, if you only use a tiny bit of the lib, you may as well could just not use the lib at all…
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