XSF Discussion - 2022-11-18

  1. Calvin has left
  2. Patiga has left
  3. catchy has left
  4. Tobias has left
  5. antranigv has joined
  6. sonny has left
  7. sonny has joined
  8. rubi has left
  9. sonny has left
  10. sonny has joined
  11. rubi has joined
  12. govanify has left
  13. govanify has joined
  14. catchy has joined
  15. govanify has left
  16. govanify has joined
  17. brunrobe has joined
  18. Patiga has joined
  19. karoshi has left
  20. rubi has left
  21. rubi has joined
  22. chipmnk has left
  23. daags has left
  24. sbach has left
  25. sbach has joined
  26. rubi has left
  27. rubi has joined
  28. Mjolnir Archon has joined
  29. Kev has left
  30. Kev has joined
  31. Maranda has joined
  32. rubi has left
  33. rubi has joined
  34. atomicwatch has left
  35. debacle has left
  36. Vidak has left
  37. atomicwatch has joined
  38. massivebox has joined
  39. Half-Shot has left
  40. homebeach has left
  41. Matthew has left
  42. uhoreg has left
  43. Half-Shot has joined
  44. Matthew has joined
  45. homebeach has joined
  46. uhoreg has joined
  47. Kev has left
  48. govanify has left
  49. govanify has joined
  50. L29Ah has left
  51. L29Ah has joined
  52. rubi has left
  53. rubi has joined
  54. Vidak has joined
  55. govanify has left
  56. govanify has joined
  57. massivebox has left
  58. govanify has left
  59. Trung has joined
  60. govanify has joined
  61. Kev has joined
  62. pablo has joined
  63. Vaulor has left
  64. rubi has left
  65. rubi has joined
  66. massivebox has joined
  67. atomicwatch has left
  68. neshtaxmpp has left
  69. neshtaxmpp has joined
  70. singpolyma has left
  71. singpolyma has joined
  72. restive_monk has left
  73. Kev has left
  74. restive_monk has joined
  75. mh has left
  76. mh has joined
  77. Kev has joined
  78. rubi has left
  79. Tobias has joined
  80. EOF has left
  81. EOF has joined
  82. atomicwatch has joined
  83. massivebox has left
  84. govanify has left
  85. govanify has joined
  86. neshtaxmpp has left
  87. Tobias has left
  88. neshtaxmpp has joined
  89. adiaholic has left
  90. adiaholic has joined
  91. neshtaxmpp has left
  92. govanify has left
  93. govanify has joined
  94. rubi has joined
  95. neshtaxmpp has joined
  96. sbach has left
  97. sbach has joined
  98. kryptos has left
  99. govanify has left
  100. govanify has joined
  101. singpolyma has left
  102. singpolyma has joined
  103. rubi has left
  104. restive_monk has left
  105. mh has left
  106. mh has joined
  107. restive_monk has joined
  108. atomicwatch has left
  109. singpolyma has left
  110. singpolyma has joined
  111. sbach has left
  112. singpolyma has left
  113. sbach has joined
  114. singpolyma has joined
  115. mh has left
  116. pablo has left
  117. hnsr.q has left
  118. mh has joined
  119. hnsr.q has joined
  120. Kev has left
  121. Steve Kille has left
  122. Steve Kille has joined
  123. moparisthebest has left
  124. moparisthebest has joined
  125. neshtaxmpp has left
  126. Kev has joined
  127. stp has left
  128. Kev has left
  129. Kev has joined
  130. atomicwatch has joined
  131. lskdjf has left
  132. Titi has left
  133. Kev has left
  134. rubi has joined
  135. Kev has joined
  136. Kev has left
  137. tbm16 has left
  138. rubi has left
  139. rubi has joined
  140. Kev has joined
  141. tbm16 has joined
  142. atomicwatch has left
  143. xnamed has left
  144. xnamed has joined
  145. rubi has left
  146. rubi has joined
  147. adiaholic has left
  148. atomicwatch has joined
  149. adiaholic has joined
  150. Tobias has joined
  151. adiaholic has left
  152. Tobias has left
  153. rion has joined
  154. Titi has joined
  155. adiaholic has joined
  156. konstantinos has left
  157. konstantinos has joined
  158. Half-Shot has left
  159. homebeach has left
  160. Matthew has left
  161. uhoreg has left
  162. Half-Shot has joined
  163. Matthew has joined
  164. homebeach has joined
  165. uhoreg has joined
  166. adiaholic has left
  167. adiaholic has joined
  168. oshn has left
  169. raghavgururajan has joined
  170. Maxence has joined
  171. rion has left
  172. rion has joined
  173. Kev has left
  174. Kev has joined
  175. Tobias has joined
  176. mirux has joined
  177. sbach has left
  178. sbach has joined
  179. Vaulor has joined
  180. marc0s has left
  181. marc0s has joined
  182. Kev has left
  183. Tobi has joined
  184. Kev has joined
  185. sbach has left
  186. sbach has joined
  187. chipmnk has joined
  188. jcbrand has left
  189. massivebox has joined
  190. rubi has left
  191. rubi has joined
  192. neshtaxmpp has joined
  193. daags has joined
  194. rion has left
  195. rion has joined
  196. Menel has left
  197. Menel has joined
  198. emus has joined
  199. xnamed has left
  200. rion has left
  201. rion has joined
  202. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has joined
  203. marc0s has left
  204. marc0s has joined
  205. marc0s has left
  206. marc0s has joined
  207. Axel has joined
  208. rion has left
  209. rion has joined
  210. xnamed has joined
  211. rion has left
  212. rion has joined
  213. Half-Shot has left
  214. uhoreg has left
  215. homebeach has left
  216. Matthew has left
  217. Half-Shot has joined
  218. Matthew has joined
  219. homebeach has joined
  220. uhoreg has joined
  221. atomicwatch has left
  222. antranigv has left
  223. Wojtek has joined
  224. qy has left
  225. qy has joined
  226. atomicwatch has joined
  227. wurstsalat has joined
  228. karoshi has joined
  229. marc0s has left
  230. marc0s has joined
  231. inky has left
  232. Titi has left
  233. restive_monk has left
  234. asterix has left
  235. asterix has joined
  236. xnamed has left
  237. xnamed has joined
  238. restive_monk has joined
  239. marc0s has left
  240. marc0s has joined
  241. marc0s has left
  242. marc0s has joined
  243. marc0s has left
  244. marc0s has joined
  245. Wojtek has left
  246. thndrbvr has joined
  247. marc0s has left
  248. marc0s has joined
  249. marc0s has left
  250. marc0s has joined
  251. Kev has left
  252. Kev has joined
  253. marc0s has left
  254. marc0s has joined
  255. rubi has left
  256. rubi has joined
  257. marc0s has left
  258. marc0s has joined
  259. marc0s has left
  260. marc0s has joined
  261. rubi has left
  262. rubi has joined
  263. rubi has left
  264. marc0s has left
  265. marc0s has joined
  266. marc0s has left
  267. marc0s has joined
  268. rubi has joined
  269. oshn has joined
  270. rubi has left
  271. rubi has joined
  272. mathijs has left
  273. rion has left
  274. rion has joined
  275. raghavgururajan has left
  276. mathijs has joined
  277. Titi has joined
  278. marc0s has left
  279. marc0s has joined
  280. marc0s has left
  281. marc0s has joined
  282. eevvoor has joined
  283. marc0s has left
  284. marc0s has joined
  285. marc0s has left
  286. marc0s has joined
  287. rubi has left
  288. rubi has joined
  289. marc0s has left
  290. marc0s has joined
  291. marc0s has left
  292. marc0s has joined
  293. jcbrand has joined
  294. rubi has left
  295. marc0s has left
  296. marc0s has joined
  297. marc0s has left
  298. chipmnk has left
  299. marc0s has joined
  300. rubi has joined
  301. chipmnk has joined
  302. atomicwatch has left
  303. rubi has left
  304. neox has joined
  305. inky has joined
  306. goffi has joined
  307. rubi has joined
  308. atomicwatch has joined
  309. marc0s has left
  310. marc0s has joined
  311. marc0s has left
  312. marc0s has joined
  313. wladmis has left
  314. wladmis has joined
  315. atomicwatch has left
  316. atomicwatch has joined
  317. rubi has left
  318. rubi has joined
  319. oshn has left
  320. marc0s has left
  321. marc0s has joined
  322. oshn has joined
  323. atomicwatch has left
  324. rubi has left
  325. rubi has joined
  326. Wojtek has joined
  327. SteveF has joined
  328. neshtaxmpp has left
  329. neshtaxmpp has joined
  330. mathijs has left
  331. mathijs has joined
  332. antranigv has joined
  333. antranigv has left
  334. gooya has joined
  335. rubi has left
  336. atomicwatch has joined
  337. rubi has joined
  338. marc0s has left
  339. marc0s has joined
  340. wladmis has left
  341. wladmis has joined
  342. Steve Kille has left
  343. rubi has left
  344. Steve Kille has joined
  345. Paganini has left
  346. sbach has left
  347. sbach has joined
  348. marc0s has left
  349. marc0s has joined
  350. wurstsalat hi folks! I tried to make the build process of xmpp.org's software section a bit more informative. if you look at the "Prepare software list" and "Generate/add compliance data" sections in each build log, you'll see which package is expired, which one offers a DOAP file (I count 52 already, hooray!), and which one doesn't. also, problems with calculating compliance data become obvious this way. here is an example: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/actions/runs/3494138103/jobs/5849652578
  351. wurstsalat https://spacecloud.one/upload/7b02c1d5-c807-48b1-a441-9c724c511507/1dd19897-aa15-4158-9b31-a8b4ab4342ef.png
  352. rubi has joined
  353. qy has left
  354. qy has joined
  355. rubi has left
  356. Tim R has joined
  357. rubi has joined
  358. MattJ Very nice!
  359. marc0s has left
  360. marc0s has joined
  361. marc0s has left
  362. marc0s has joined
  363. qy has left
  364. qy has joined
  365. wladmis has left
  366. LNJ has joined
  367. wladmis has joined
  368. rubi has left
  369. qy has left
  370. qy has joined
  371. Seve has left
  372. neshtaxmpp has left
  373. neshtaxmpp has joined
  374. Half-Shot has left
  375. Matthew has left
  376. uhoreg has left
  377. homebeach has left
  378. Half-Shot has joined
  379. Matthew has joined
  380. homebeach has joined
  381. uhoreg has joined
  382. rubi has joined
  383. qy has left
  384. qy has joined
  385. stp has joined
  386. qy has left
  387. qy has joined
  388. marc0s has left
  389. marc0s has joined
  390. marc0s has left
  391. marc0s has joined
  392. qy has left
  393. qy has joined
  394. rubi has left
  395. rubi has joined
  396. flow indeed :)
  397. marc0s has left
  398. raucao has left
  399. marc0s has joined
  400. wladmis has left
  401. wladmis has joined
  402. Ge0rG > Compliance data available, but no match for: P\u00e0d\u00e9 Say what?
  404. qy has left
  405. wurstsalat It's Pàdé, and probably an encoding issue in the tool chain :) I'm trying to fix that
  406. qy has joined
  407. Half-Shot has left
  408. Matthew has left
  409. uhoreg has left
  410. homebeach has left
  411. Half-Shot has joined
  412. Matthew has joined
  413. homebeach has joined
  414. uhoreg has joined
  415. marc0s has left
  416. derdaniel has joined
  417. qy has left
  418. qy has joined
  419. rubi has left
  420. rubi has joined
  421. marc0s has joined
  422. marc0s has left
  423. marc0s has joined
  424. Guus Hehehe. Welcome to my everlasting effort to fix encoding issues in Ignite's tool chain too. Thanks for that, Dele :)
  425. Guus Looks pretty sweet, by the way, mr. Salat.
  426. Tobi has left
  427. Kev has left
  428. Steve Kille has left
  429. Tim R has left
  430. SteveF has left
  431. SteveF has joined
  432. Tim R has joined
  433. marc0s has left
  434. marc0s has joined
  435. Tobi has joined
  436. Steve Kille has joined
  437. Kev has joined
  438. Guus It's sad to see so many projects having expired. I stand by the reasoning behind us hiding them (and we successfully get rid of a lot of crud this way), but maybe we should consider not completely hiding potential value. Can we expose those expired entries behind some kind of link? Something like: "Can't find what you're looking for? Please click here for older listings, that have not been updated in a while."
  439. mathijs has left
  440. mathijs has joined
  441. nicomuc would it make sense to have a "component" section in the softwares listed on xmpp.org? also, wouldn't it be nice to use the doap files to list which client/server/lib[/component?] implements a XEP in xmpp.org/extensions/xep-XXXX.html?
  442. nicomuc has left
  443. Guus oh, I have very strong arguments on that. Confusingly, they are both for and against that idea. :)
  444. nicoco erm, about Q1 or Q2? ^^
  445. nyco has left
  446. Guus 2
  447. Guus i'm ambivalent on 1.
  448. marc0s has left
  449. nicomuc has joined
  450. Guus on 2, damnit
  451. Guus typing is hard.
  452. Guus on 1, I do not have a strong opinion any way.
  453. nicoco my idea for 1 is that slidge (sorry for being self-centered, but this is what I know...) could be listed as a library, but then there is no right place for slidge-signal or telegabber; a component section would be suited.
  454. Ge0rG Guus: q1: I think the general consensus was to move implementations to DOAP and to display their best compliance suite value, so unmaintained ones will end up showing as "Basic Client 2006" or somesuch
  455. wurstsalat Guus: yes, listing those in a separate section may be an option. and as Ge0rG says
  456. Ge0rG and then maybe to display-filter based on current year(s)?
  457. rubi has left
  458. marc0s has joined
  459. rion has left
  460. nicoco about 2, it's just a usual/recurring confusion I had while trying to do stuff "the modern way" but I guess modernxmpp.org is the answer. also some XEPs are deferred or still experimental while widely implemented so it's a bit confusing sometimes... but it's just lack of (human) resources to actually advance their state I guess
  461. rion has joined
  462. antranigv has joined
  463. wurstsalat and yes, a filter box is a good idea. I'll add compliance results to each cards, so they can be spotted easily. maybe we can get rid of the renewal process after that, and list packages with a DOAP file (those with a compliance level prominently), and others less prominently
  464. wurstsalat nicoco: I think those should be 5 categories: clients, servers, libraries, components, tools (we have all of those listed, but components and tools are in libraries atm)
  465. Guus Ge0rG: I think that you're numbering differently than nico and I are doing, but: understood.
  466. Half-Shot has left
  467. Matthew has left
  468. uhoreg has left
  469. homebeach has left
  470. Half-Shot has joined
  471. Matthew has joined
  472. homebeach has joined
  473. uhoreg has joined
  474. nyco has joined
  475. Guus should we worry that to much automation will cause developers to fake compliancy in order to get linked as much as possible?
  476. mh has left
  477. intosi has joined
  478. wurstsalat I think this will happen inevitably, and we should act when it does. but less automation would lead to outdated/incorrect values instantly
  479. rion has left
  480. rion has joined
  481. Kev > developers to fake compliancy in order to get linked as much as possible? History says this is likely to happen, as it happened even with non-automated lists.
  482. marc0s has left
  483. marc0s has joined
  484. Kev Whether that's actually a problem worth giving much thought to might be another matter.
  485. Zash faking entries > expired entries ? :)
  486. marc0s has left
  487. Ge0rG you can't prevent people from faking stuff.
  488. marc0s has joined
  489. marc0s has left
  490. marc0s has joined
  491. Ge0rG but I think that people lying about their XEP compliance will be the exception, not the rule
  492. rion has left
  493. rion has joined
  494. Axel has left
  495. rubi has joined
  496. marc0s has left
  497. marc0s has joined
  498. chipmnk has left
  499. chipmnk has joined
  500. hnsr.q has left
  501. tbm16 has left
  502. tbm16 has joined
  503. emus Should we really have 5 lists. I was the one starting to add tools to libraries
  504. stp has left
  505. rion has left
  506. rion has joined
  507. tbm16 has left
  508. Half-Shot has left
  509. Matthew has left
  510. uhoreg has left
  511. homebeach has left
  512. Half-Shot has joined
  513. Matthew has joined
  514. homebeach has joined
  515. uhoreg has joined
  516. Alex has left
  517. pasdesushi has left
  518. pasdesushi has joined
  519. pasdesushi has left
  520. pasdesushi has joined
  521. hnsr.q has joined
  522. wladmis has left
  523. wladmis has joined
  524. Alex has joined
  525. debacle has joined
  526. nicoco has left
  527. wurstsalat Where to add components then? Servers?
  528. atomicwatch has left
  529. flow one list where every entry is assigned (at least) one category?
  530. raucao has joined
  531. emus First would prefer to have it in one list and only key that differs. then we can have it on one page with respective sections?
  532. konstantinos has left
  533. atomicwatch has joined
  534. atomicwatch has left
  535. tbm16 has joined
  536. edhelas Would it be possible to extend Vcard4 and add Mastodon profile link in it somehow ?
  537. inky has left
  538. Zash https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6350#section-6.7.8 ?
  539. inky has joined
  540. marc0s has left
  541. wladmis has left
  542. marc0s has joined
  543. wladmis has joined
  544. inky has left
  545. inky has joined
  546. wurstsalat flow, yes, good point
  547. rion has left
  548. rion has joined
  549. edhelas Zash, it's a bit more than a URL, there is no way to know if the URL is actually a Mastodon one because of the federation
  550. konstantinos has joined
  551. atomicwatch has joined
  552. Zash Does the user or the code need to know that it is Mastodon in particular? Or, generic ActivityPub?
  553. Zash https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6350#section-5.6 allows for some x-name except https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6648 deprecates it
  554. rion has left
  555. rion has joined
  556. Zash Write an RFC that adds some TYPE value for social media to the registry at https://www.iana.org/assignments/vcard-elements/vcard-elements.xhtml#parameter-values .... ?
  557. Zash Generic human-readable description of the field would have been nice I think
  558. jonas’ but l10n
  559. jonas’ and i18n
  560. Zash Generic human-readable description of the property* would have been nice I think
  561. Zash jonas’, oh no, now you need language tags for the properties :(
  562. rion has left
  563. rion has joined
  564. rion has left
  565. rion has joined
  566. rion has left
  567. rion has joined
  568. Zash Without inventing something new and namespaced, I'd suggest `<url><uri>https://fosstodon.org/@zash</uri><type>x-activitypub</type></url>`
  569. edhelas Mhhh 🤔
  570. flashcore has left
  571. rion has left
  572. rion has joined
  573. marc0s has left
  574. marc0s has joined
  575. inky has left
  576. inky has joined
  577. Ray22 has joined
  578. mathijs has left
  579. mathijs has joined
  580. inky has left
  581. atomicwatch has left
  582. marc0s has left
  583. marc0s has joined
  584. marc0s has left
  585. marc0s has joined
  586. kryptos has joined
  587. kryptos has left
  588. singpolyma Zash, edhelas: or use the acct: URI for their webfinger
  589. Wojtek has left
  590. edhelas How does it look like ?
  591. singpolyma acct: if just used for webfinger so just the scheme makes it pretty unambiguous. Do webfinger lookup to know any specific things like profile url etc
  592. singpolyma acct:user@mastodon.social
  593. antranigv has left
  594. rion has left
  595. edhelas acct:@user@mastodon.social no ?
  596. Fishbowler has left
  597. Fishbowler has joined
  598. inky has joined
  599. singpolyma has left
  600. singpolyma has joined
  601. Zash no
  602. singpolyma edhelas: no
  603. singpolyma There is no leading @ in activitypub or webfinger stuff
  604. kryptos has joined
  605. kryptos has left
  606. singpolyma That's just how Mastodon users type into their text box because of Twitter syntax for replies
  607. kryptos has joined
  608. edhelas Okay
  609. papatutuwawa has joined
  610. singpolyma (technically activitypub doesn't require or suggest webfinger at all, but Mastodon has made it near universal for AP users)
  611. singpolyma has left
  612. singpolyma has joined
  613. mathijs has left
  614. atomicwatch has joined
  615. marc0s has left
  616. marc0s has joined
  617. mathijs has joined
  618. nicomuc has left
  619. inky has left
  620. marc0s has left
  621. marc0s has joined
  622. singpolyma has left
  623. singpolyma has joined
  624. debacle has left
  625. lskdjf has joined
  626. marc0s has left
  627. marc0s has joined
  628. marc0s has left
  629. marc0s has joined
  630. govanify has left
  631. govanify has joined
  632. marc0s has left
  633. marc0s has joined
  634. raucao That didn't come from mastodon, but from ostatus iirc
  635. raucao I.e. gnusocial et al
  636. marc0s has left
  637. marc0s has joined
  638. marc0s has left
  639. marc0s has joined
  640. marc0s has left
  641. marc0s has joined
  642. singpolyma has left
  643. singpolyma has joined
  644. govanify has left
  645. govanify has joined
  646. marc0s has left
  647. marc0s has joined
  648. marc0s has left
  649. marc0s has joined
  650. singpolyma raucao: it was developed by the OpenID crowd and used by OStatus, but Mastodon is who mandated it in conjunction with ActivityPub specifically
  651. marc0s has left
  652. Zash IIRC Google+ too
  653. raucao Mastodon used it with ostatus before was my point
  654. marc0s has joined
  655. marc0s has left
  656. marc0s has joined
  657. raucao Does AP define a discovery mechanism at all?
  658. raucao > IIRC Google+ too Huh, that's interesting! Why did they need to discover URLs for their own users?
  659. marc0s has left
  660. marc0s has joined
  661. Zash IIRC in AP you GET some URL with Accept: application/json and see if you get JSON-LD back, or somesuch
  662. marc0s has left
  663. marc0s has joined
  664. singpolyma raucao: yes, AP discovery is done on HTTP level
  665. raucao What does that mean? Webfinger is also just http
  666. singpolyma raucao: no, webfinger starts with acct: URI and turns it into http
  667. singpolyma AP starts with the HTTP that the webfinger can be used to discover
  668. raucao So that's a no
  669. singpolyma What's a no?
  670. raucao No discovery defined
  671. raucao You have to know the URLs beforehand
  672. singpolyma Discovery from what? With webfinger you need to know the acct URI beforehand also
  673. raucao No you don't
  674. singpolyma It's thing@domain.tld vs https://domain.tld/thing that's all
  675. raucao It's defined as a well-known URL. You only need to know the user address
  676. raucao Which can point to wherever
  677. raucao An end user doesn't know your full URL. Discovering it is what is called discovery in webfinger. You could also use a URL with it
  678. Tim R K
  679. raucao But you have to discover inbox URLs etc for AP
  680. singpolyma Yes, those aren't in webfinger
  681. raucao They sure are
  682. singpolyma Webfinger just points at the AP endpoint
  683. singpolyma And then you discover anything additional from there
  684. Maxence has left
  685. raucao Ah right sry brain fart
  686. raucao It points to a profile actually
  687. singpolyma Mastodon uses webfinger for two reasons: to allow using @ instead of / in the address and to reuse the old OStatus remote follow protocol
  688. raucao But yes you would have to know the full profile URL which can be different for every server and software
  689. raucao It's not just a slasg
  690. raucao It's not just a slash
  691. Tim R has left
  692. raucao And it doesn't even have to be on the same domain
  693. singpolyma As the webfinger? Sure, it doesn't have to be, that's fine
  694. raucao I mean it's very similar to xmpp in that regard
  695. singpolyma You still need to know there user's address. The only difference is address format
  696. raucao Same address format
  697. raucao user@host
  698. singpolyma Usually you go to their webpage (at a url) to find out their webfinger address anyway
  699. singpolyma So for me I usually just cut-paste the url I have and ignore we finger. Saves me a step
  700. singpolyma So for me I usually just cut-paste the url I have and ignore webfinger. Saves me a step
  701. raucao I think we can agree that most users click on a name somewhere and don't know what a URL is :)
  702. raucao hence the "I'm @somename" problem with everyone being on centralized services
  703. singpolyma Sure, most users don't use the webfinger URI either. They click the follow button
  704. raucao I'm very happy people learn about user addresses that aren't email addresses now
  705. Zash Put `<a href="mastodon/@me">follow me on mastodon</a>` on your wobpage
  706. raucao (I'm working on remoteStorage and we also prescribe webfinger. But most people type their email address in connect dialogs)
  707. marc0s has left
  708. marc0s has joined
  709. marc0s has left
  710. marc0s has joined
  711. raucao People definitely use the webfinger IDs now, because that's how you mention someone on a different fedi instance
  712. Zash If you wanna discover non-google microblog or storage endpoint from users' gmail then you have a problem yes.
  713. nyco has left
  714. nyco has joined
  715. Maxence has joined
  716. singpolyma Yeah, we have half a dozen gmails get typed into our boxes labelled "jabber id" it's fun
  717. raucao Yes, and it's mostly a cultural problem. Like email addresses also were, or hashtags, or @usernames
  718. raucao Or phone numbers even
  719. raucao Remember people having to learn cellphone numbers?
  720. raucao 🤣
  721. Zash Have I finally forgotten my ICQ number?
  722. marc0s has left
  723. marc0s has joined
  724. flashcore has joined
  725. hnsr.q has left
  726. marc0s has left
  727. marc0s has joined
  728. singpolyma Mine was too long to remember. My dad had a nice short one
  729. marc0s has left
  730. marc0s has joined
  731. singpolyma I spent so much energy trying to get people off other IM services and on to ICQ back in the day, rarely successfully
  732. marc0s has left
  733. marc0s has joined
  734. Zash ICQ was my first
  735. wurstsalat > Have I finally forgotten my ICQ number? never
  736. marc0s has left
  737. marc0s has joined
  738. Half-Shot has left
  739. Matthew has left
  740. uhoreg has left
  741. homebeach has left
  742. LNJ has left
  743. Half-Shot has joined
  744. Matthew has joined
  745. homebeach has joined
  746. uhoreg has joined
  747. inky has joined
  748. Zash half of it seemed to have dropped out of muscle memory
  749. marc0s has left
  750. marc0s has joined
  751. marc0s has left
  752. marc0s has joined
  753. marc0s has left
  754. marc0s has joined
  755. mh has joined
  756. marc0s has left
  757. marc0s has joined
  758. hnsr.q has joined
  759. Shackleton has joined
  760. neshtaxmpp has left
  761. Andrzej has joined
  762. Shackleton has left
  763. nicoco has joined
  764. Wojtek has joined
  765. marc0s has left
  766. marc0s has joined
  767. marc0s has left
  768. marc0s has joined
  769. sonny has left
  770. sonny has joined
  771. sonny has left
  772. sonny has joined
  773. marc0s has left
  774. sonny has left
  775. sonny has joined
  776. singpolyma has left
  777. singpolyma has joined
  778. konstantinos has left
  779. mh has left
  780. konstantinos has joined
  781. marc0s has joined
  782. mh has joined
  783. Seve has joined
  784. marc0s has left
  785. marc0s has joined
  786. marc0s has left
  787. marc0s has joined
  788. LNJ has joined
  789. projjalm has joined
  790. marc0s has left
  791. marc0s has joined
  792. marc0s has left
  793. marc0s has joined
  794. atomicwatch has left
  795. mjk > Have I finally forgotten my ICQ number? I tried to remember mine... and I succeeded, globdammit 🤦️ and it was a 9-digit one, even
  796. atomicwatch has joined
  797. atomicwatch has left
  798. mjk anyway, thanks for mentioning webfinger. I was recently very disappointed and headscratchy to not find some defined ap:user@server scheme. still disappointed to be required to fetch a pile of json via http 💢
  799. Ge0rG mine is seven digits, but number logins have been deactivated how long ago?
  800. nicoco very basic question incoming: how do I locally render HTML from XEPs? there sure are a lot of different scripts in this repo ^^ also, anyone ever worked on something like a markdown to XML thing for XEP? maybe with pandoc or so?
  801. marc0s has left
  802. marc0s has joined
  803. nicoco oh, tools/2xep.lua looks like what I was looking for
  804. Fishbowler on a similar vein - I've wanted to do a browser extension for ages that'd work with XEPs to translate the examples into something in your own context. A lot of the work I do is testing, and I'm often translating from shakespeare to something more boring :)
  805. marc0s has left
  806. marc0s has joined
  807. Ge0rG nicoco: `make xep-0433.html` should do the trick and put the HTML render result into build/xep-0433.html
  808. karoshi has left
  809. karoshi has joined
  810. Zash nicoco, 2xep.lua is markdown → xep-xml, you want tools/xep2md.sh ?
  811. atomicwatch has joined
  812. Zash for html, just `make xep-xxxx.html && open build/xep-xxxx.html` ?
  813. nicoco Georg: great! so not used to compiling things that I did not even notice the Makefile.
  814. Zash Oh, Ge0rG already said
  815. marc0s has left
  816. marc0s has joined
  817. nicoco Zash: well, both would be great actually, I'd like to propose an update, but I guess xml->md->editing->xml will induce too many diffs. I'll try it anyway, I don't have the XML-brain yet so it's really tedious to write XML directly.
  818. nicoco thanks
  819. flashcore has left
  820. mjk just do xml->json->editing->xml :trollface:
  821. konstantinos has left
  822. Zash `{"xep":"<xep><![CDATA[<html>....`
  823. Andrzej has left
  824. nicoco or xml->latex->xml maybe? jk I write everything in markdown since I discovered my lord and savior pandoc. all hail pandoc!
  825. singpolyma I doubt the xep format can be properly represented in markdown or latex since it has all kinds of custom stuff
  826. jonas’ nicoco, make html
  827. Zash pandoc is love, pandoc is life
  828. sonny has left
  829. sonny has joined
  830. singpolyma (such as entity references to other xeps)
  831. jonas’ Zash, `make build/xep-xxxx.html`, IIRC
  832. nicoco singpolyma: there is a pandoc filter written by Zash that seems to cover just that ^^
  833. singpolyma Ah. So custom markdown
  834. Zash The pandoc filter should handle basic structure, metadata, but not stuff like entity references
  835. nicoco maybe time to have som fun with pandoc and lua then!
  836. nicoco maybe time to have some fun with pandoc and lua then!
  837. marc0s has left
  838. sonny has left
  839. sonny has joined
  840. Zash That may reach the limits of what markdown can do
  841. Ge0rG jonas’: both paths work
  842. jonas’ fancy
  843. Ge0rG Zash: lua xep renderer in koreader when? :D
  844. Zash That's why I had xep→markdown, so I could pandoc it into .epub :)
  845. singpolyma Can't pandoc read HTML and make epub from that? Especially since epub is just HTML in a zip
  846. Ge0rG reminds me that the standard document format for RFCs still is US Letter.
  847. Zash Ge0rG, I thought they went markdown-on-github now?
  848. marc0s has joined
  849. Ge0rG Zash: did they? are they going to markdown all the existing RFCs, too?
  850. flashcore has joined
  851. Zash unlikely, but most new things look like https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation
  852. mathijs has left
  853. mathijs has joined
  854. mathijs has left
  855. mathijs has joined
  856. nicoco I actually like markdown for redacting stuff... is that a bad thing?
  857. xnamed has left
  858. xnamed has joined
  859. Ge0rG not at all, markdown is a nice trade-off for 90% of tech docs
  860. neshtaxmpp has joined
  861. Ge0rG if you have a dialect that supports tables and diagrams, you are probably at 95%
  862. marc0s has left
  863. marc0s has joined
  864. kurisu has left
  865. sonny has left
  866. nicoco I wrote my phd thesis with markdown (+pandoc +some awful scripts to make it fit the latex template the uni wanted me to use). so I think it can cover anything 🙂
  867. sonny has joined
  868. nicoco I wrote my phd thesis in markdown (+pandoc +some awful scripts to make it fit the latex template the uni wanted me to use). so I think it can cover anything 🙂
  869. konstantinos has joined
  870. Ge0rG I wrote my phd in LaTeX.
  871. inky has left
  872. Ge0rG nicoco: well, it depends what you wrote your phd about.
  873. marc0s has left
  874. marc0s has joined
  875. serge90 has left
  876. kurisu has joined
  877. nicoco to me, it's just too much useless things markup things, be it latex or html. the promise of separating content from formatting doesn't hold. whereas with basic markup languages, you can actually focus on the content. but as usual, whatever works for whoever is fine 😉
  878. marc0s has left
  879. marc0s has joined
  880. nicoco to me, it's just too much useless markup things, be it latex or html. the promise of separating content from formatting doesn't hold. whereas with basic markup languages, you can actually focus on the content. but as usual, whatever works for whoever is fine 😉
  881. nicoco to me, it's just too much ~useless~ distracting markup things, be it latex or html. the promise of separating content from formatting doesn't hold. whereas with basic markup languages, you can actually focus on the content. but as usual, whatever works for whoever is fine 😉
  882. Zash What I've done is write early drafts in markdown, then turn to xep-xml for submission and future editing... if I ever got that far
  883. singpolyma has left
  884. singpolyma has joined
  885. neshtaxmpp has left
  886. neshtaxmpp has joined
  887. xnamed has left
  888. xnamed has joined
  889. pablo has joined
  890. Ge0rG yeah, I wouldn't do another document in TeX today, I'm too old for this shit
  891. marc0s has left
  892. marc0s has joined
  893. jonas’ hides the main.tex
  894. marc0s has left
  895. marc0s has joined
  896. sebastian has left
  897. hnsr.q has left
  898. sebastian has joined
  899. flow likes LaTeX
  900. marc0s has left
  901. marc0s has joined
  902. flow that said, ietf's markdown to xml tooling is pretty good and I see many I-D being written that way (rfc4880bis for an recent example)
  903. flow I wonder if we couldn't do something similar for XEPs
  904. nicoco likes latex via a pandoc template
  905. neshtaxmpp has left
  906. flow that is, keep the existing XML infrastructure and tooling
  907. flow but be able to feed it with something markdownish
  908. mathijs has left
  909. jonas’ yes please
  910. jonas’ would also help the editor a lot
  911. jonas’ (but not as much as other things in the ~"Editor Tooling" label ;-))
  912. hnsr.q has joined
  913. flow And I'd really would love if XEPs had a meta layer with rationale, design considerations, and further secondary information. the layer wouldn't show by default, but if you ever wondered why something is designed the way it is, then you may be able to look it up
  914. marc0s has left
  915. marc0s has joined
  916. jonas’ isn't Design Considerations even a part of the template nowadays?
  917. Ray22 has left
  918. flow it is, but ignore that for now, it's misleading for my point :)
  919. flow essentially technical documentation consists of specifications (how you do things) and rationale/motoviation (why you do things)
  920. marc0s has left
  921. marc0s has joined
  922. flow if both things are immediatly present, then first-time implementors can be overwhelmed by the provided information
  923. jonas’ ah
  924. jonas’ yeah that makes sense kindof
  925. chipmnk has left
  926. flow so my idea is to have a "space" for secondary things that are not directly required to implement what is documented
  927. flow of course, this "space" should be within the document itself, it just should be rendered/presented differently (e.g., hidden, with a visible hint that something is hidden there, by default)
  928. neshtaxmpp has joined
  929. LNJ has left
  930. singpolyma has left
  931. singpolyma has joined
  932. Syndace has left
  933. Syndace has joined
  934. inky has joined
  935. marc0s has left
  936. marc0s has joined
  937. marc0s has left
  938. marc0s has joined
  939. marc0s has left
  940. marc0s has joined
  941. Andrzej has joined
  942. marc0s has left
  943. marc0s has joined
  944. pablo has left
  945. mathijs has joined
  946. nicoco has left
  947. marc0s has left
  948. marc0s has joined
  949. singpolyma has left
  950. singpolyma has joined
  951. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has left
  952. inky has left
  953. marc0s has left
  954. marc0s has joined
  955. Wojtek has left
  956. Paganini has joined
  957. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has joined
  958. projjalm has left
  959. xnamed has left
  960. wurstsalat Guus, fixed Pàdé ;)
  961. gooya has left
  962. xnamed has joined
  963. rion has joined
  964. rion has left
  965. rion has joined
  966. rion has left
  967. rion has joined
  968. stp has joined
  969. marc0s has left
  970. marc0s has joined
  971. catchy has left
  972. catchy has joined
  973. Andrzej has left
  974. raucao has left
  975. debacle has joined
  976. marc0s has left
  977. marc0s has joined
  978. pablo has joined
  979. gooya has joined
  980. Titi has left
  981. pablo has left
  982. rion has left
  983. rion has joined
  984. singpolyma has left
  985. singpolyma has joined
  986. marc0s has left
  987. marc0s has joined
  988. Wojtek has joined
  989. marc0s has left
  990. marc0s has joined
  991. rion has left
  992. rion has joined
  993. Wojtek has left
  994. marc0s has left
  995. marc0s has joined
  996. hnsr.q has left
  997. LNJ has joined
  998. Calvin has joined
  999. emus has left
  1000. marc0s has left
  1001. marc0s has joined
  1002. inky has joined
  1003. mjk ftr, it never was anything Thai because \u is followed only by 4 digits :P (i.e., 00e0, not 00e0d)
  1004. gooya has left
  1005. gooya has joined
  1006. marc0s has left
  1007. marc0s has joined
  1008. nicoco has joined
  1009. marc0s has left
  1010. marc0s has joined
  1011. Syndace has left
  1012. Syndace has joined
  1013. neshtaxmpp has left
  1014. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1015. Ge0rG mjk: bummer!
  1016. Ge0rG mjk: bummer! thanks for pointing that out, I totally fell for it
  1017. marc0s has left
  1018. marc0s has joined
  1019. neshtaxmpp has left
  1020. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1021. marc0s has left
  1022. marc0s has joined
  1023. debacle has left
  1024. raucao has joined
  1025. marc0s has left
  1026. marc0s has joined
  1027. marc0s has left
  1028. marc0s has joined
  1029. Andrzej has joined
  1030. singpolyma has left
  1031. singpolyma has joined
  1032. rion has left
  1033. rion has joined
  1034. marc0s has left
  1035. marc0s has joined
  1036. emus has joined
  1037. Alex another reminder here as well for our current board&council elections. When you are a member and have not voted yet then please take some time and do so. Thanks
  1038. rion has left
  1039. rion has joined
  1040. marc0s has left
  1041. atomicwatch has left
  1042. hnsr.q has joined
  1043. marc0s has joined
  1044. mjk Ge0rG: happens to the best of us :D
  1045. rion has left
  1046. rion has joined
  1047. neshtaxmpp has left
  1048. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1049. rion has left
  1050. rion has joined
  1051. massivebox has left
  1052. massivebox has joined
  1053. singpolyma has left
  1054. singpolyma has joined
  1055. chipmnk has joined
  1056. neshtaxmpp has left
  1057. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1058. sbach has left
  1059. sbach has joined
  1060. Axel has joined
  1061. mh has left
  1062. hnsr.q has left
  1063. marc0s has left
  1064. marc0s has joined
  1065. LNJ has left
  1066. marc0s has left
  1067. marc0s has joined
  1068. Calvin has left
  1069. LNJ has joined
  1070. chipmnk has left
  1071. chipmnk has joined
  1072. neshtaxmpp has left
  1073. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1074. sbach has left
  1075. sbach has joined
  1076. marc0s has left
  1077. marc0s has joined
  1078. singpolyma has left
  1079. singpolyma has joined
  1080. hnsr.q has joined
  1081. marc0s has left
  1082. marc0s has joined
  1083. sonny has left
  1084. sonny has joined
  1085. marc0s has left
  1086. marc0s has joined
  1087. hnsr.q has left
  1088. marc0s has left
  1089. marc0s has joined
  1090. sonny has left
  1091. sonny has joined
  1092. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has left
  1093. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has joined
  1094. Axel has left
  1095. kryptos has left
  1096. marc0s has left
  1097. marc0s has joined
  1098. sonny has left
  1099. sonny has joined
  1100. nuron has left
  1101. nuron has joined
  1102. singpolyma has left
  1103. singpolyma has joined
  1104. kryptos has joined
  1105. kryptos has left
  1106. marc0s has left
  1107. marc0s has joined
  1108. kryptos has joined
  1109. kryptos has left
  1110. xecks has left
  1111. singpolyma has left
  1112. singpolyma has joined
  1113. singpolyma has left
  1114. singpolyma has joined
  1115. kryptos has joined
  1116. kryptos has left
  1117. catchy has left
  1118. catchy has joined
  1119. kryptos has joined
  1120. rion has left
  1121. rion has joined
  1122. singpolyma has left
  1123. singpolyma has joined
  1124. neox has left
  1125. papatutuwawa has left
  1126. mathijs has left
  1127. rion has left
  1128. rion has joined
  1129. papatutuwawa has joined
  1130. atomicwatch has joined
  1131. atomicwatch has left
  1132. mathijs has joined
  1133. floretta has left
  1134. floretta has joined
  1135. Titi has joined
  1136. atomicwatch has joined
  1137. atomicwatch has left
  1138. Half-Shot has left
  1139. Matthew has left
  1140. uhoreg has left
  1141. homebeach has left
  1142. Half-Shot has joined
  1143. Matthew has joined
  1144. homebeach has joined
  1145. uhoreg has joined
  1146. millesimus has left
  1147. atomicwatch has joined
  1148. atomicwatch has left
  1149. atomicwatch has joined
  1150. atomicwatch has left
  1151. atomicwatch has joined
  1152. atomicwatch has left
  1153. atomicwatch has joined
  1154. atomicwatch has left
  1155. atomicwatch has joined
  1156. atomicwatch has left
  1157. atomicwatch has joined
  1158. atomicwatch has left
  1159. Steve Kille has left
  1160. atomicwatch has joined
  1161. atomicwatch has left
  1162. marc0s has left
  1163. marc0s has joined
  1164. rion has left
  1165. rion has joined
  1166. millesimus has joined
  1167. atomicwatch has joined
  1168. atomicwatch has left
  1169. singpolyma has left
  1170. singpolyma has joined
  1171. Steve Kille has joined
  1172. marc0s has left
  1173. xecks has joined
  1174. marc0s has joined
  1175. Dele Olajide has joined
  1176. neox has joined
  1177. atomicwatch has joined
  1178. Daniel has left
  1179. atomicwatch has left
  1180. Daniel has joined
  1181. marc0s has left
  1182. marc0s has joined
  1183. marc0s has left
  1184. marc0s has joined
  1185. atomicwatch has joined
  1186. atomicwatch has left
  1187. rion has left
  1188. rion has joined
  1189. rion has left
  1190. rion has joined
  1191. atomicwatch has joined
  1192. atomicwatch has left
  1193. rion has left
  1194. rion has joined
  1195. atomicwatch has joined
  1196. singpolyma has left
  1197. singpolyma has joined
  1198. millesimus has left
  1199. mh has joined
  1200. nyco has left
  1201. marc0s has left
  1202. marc0s has joined
  1203. mjk has left
  1204. mjk has joined
  1205. Dele Olajide has left
  1206. marc0s has left
  1207. marc0s has joined
  1208. marc0s has left
  1209. marc0s has joined
  1210. marc0s has left
  1211. marc0s has joined
  1212. nyco has joined
  1213. marc0s has left
  1214. marc0s has joined
  1215. catchy has left
  1216. chipmnk has left
  1217. chipmnk has joined
  1218. singpolyma has left
  1219. singpolyma has joined
  1220. nyco has left
  1221. marc0s has left
  1222. marc0s has joined
  1223. singpolyma has left
  1224. singpolyma has joined
  1225. djorz has joined
  1226. marc0s has left
  1227. marc0s has joined
  1228. singpolyma has left
  1229. singpolyma has joined
  1230. Mx2 has left
  1231. intosi has left
  1232. singpolyma has left
  1233. singpolyma has joined
  1234. asterix has left
  1235. asterix has joined
  1236. singpolyma has left
  1237. singpolyma has joined
  1238. Mx2 has joined
  1239. Ingolf has left
  1240. nyco has joined
  1241. asterix has left
  1242. asterix has joined
  1243. Titi has left
  1244. millesimus has joined
  1245. atomicwatch has left
  1246. Trung has left
  1247. Trung has joined
  1248. Trung has left
  1249. Trung has joined
  1250. atomicwatch has joined
  1251. atomicwatch has left
  1252. Ingolf has joined
  1253. atomicwatch has joined
  1254. atomicwatch has left
  1255. atomicwatch has joined
  1256. atomicwatch has left
  1257. singpolyma has left
  1258. singpolyma has joined
  1259. atomicwatch has joined
  1260. atomicwatch has left
  1261. Titi has joined
  1262. mimi89999 has left
  1263. mimi89999 has joined
  1264. jcbrand has left
  1265. jcbrand has joined
  1266. andrey.g has joined
  1267. atomicwatch has joined
  1268. atomicwatch has left
  1269. atomicwatch has joined
  1270. atomicwatch has left
  1271. atomicwatch has joined
  1272. atomicwatch has left
  1273. atomicwatch has joined
  1274. antranigv has joined
  1275. nyco has left
  1276. kryptos has left
  1277. singpolyma has left
  1278. singpolyma has joined
  1279. mathijs has left
  1280. mathijs has joined
  1281. rion has left
  1282. Wojtek has joined
  1283. catchy has joined
  1284. arc has left
  1285. arc has joined
  1286. Ray22 has joined
  1287. eric has joined
  1288. debacle has joined
  1289. Mx2 has left
  1290. eric has left
  1291. nyco has joined
  1292. kryptos has joined
  1293. djorz has left
  1294. singpolyma has left
  1295. singpolyma has joined
  1296. Andrzej has left
  1297. krit has left
  1298. krit has joined
  1299. marc0s has left
  1300. marc0s has joined
  1301. antranigv has left
  1302. karoshi has left
  1303. marc0s has left
  1304. marc0s has joined
  1305. marc0s has left
  1306. marc0s has joined
  1307. mh has left
  1308. Mx2 has joined
  1309. antranigv has joined
  1310. mjk has left
  1311. marc0s has left
  1312. mjk has joined
  1313. Wojtek has left
  1314. marc0s has joined
  1315. andrey.g has left
  1316. LNJ has left
  1317. marc0s has left
  1318. mh has joined
  1319. marc0s has joined
  1320. eevvoor has left
  1321. asterix has left
  1322. asterix has joined
  1323. antranigv has left
  1324. mathijs has left
  1325. Kev has left
  1326. antranigv has joined
  1327. mathijs has joined
  1328. mathijs has left
  1329. mathijs has joined
  1330. marc0s has left
  1331. marc0s has joined
  1332. Kev has joined
  1333. singpolyma has left
  1334. paul has joined
  1335. singpolyma has joined
  1336. massivebox has left
  1337. massivebox has joined
  1338. marc0s has left
  1339. marc0s has joined
  1340. Ray22 has left
  1341. asterix has left
  1342. asterix has joined
  1343. marc0s has left
  1344. marc0s has joined
  1345. Mario Sabatino has left
  1346. marc0s has left
  1347. marc0s has joined
  1348. marc0s has left
  1349. marc0s has joined
  1350. marc0s has left
  1351. marc0s has joined
  1352. Seve has left
  1353. Seve has joined
  1354. edhelas has left
  1355. edhelas has joined
  1356. LNJ has joined
  1357. edhelas has left
  1358. edhelas has joined
  1359. papatutuwawa has left
  1360. root has left
  1361. marc0s has left
  1362. marc0s has joined
  1363. root has joined
  1364. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has left
  1365. singpolyma has left
  1366. emus This is the draft for the next release covering November 2022. https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/1209
  1367. Maxence has left
  1368. mirux has left
  1369. emus If you support, please put your nick, we would like name our contributors. But feel free to stay anonymous of course
  1370. singpolyma has joined
  1371. Alex has left
  1372. konstantinos has left
  1373. karoshi has joined
  1374. marc0s has left
  1375. marc0s has joined
  1376. jcbrand has left
  1377. singpolyma has left
  1378. singpolyma has joined
  1379. jgart has left
  1380. jgart has joined
  1381. singpolyma has left
  1382. singpolyma has joined
  1383. catchy has left
  1384. djorz has joined
  1385. govanify has left
  1386. govanify has joined
  1387. mh has left
  1388. govanify has left
  1389. govanify has joined
  1390. Seve has left
  1391. floretta has left
  1392. floretta has joined
  1393. govanify has left
  1394. govanify has joined
  1395. Seve has joined
  1396. mh has joined
  1397. jgart has left
  1398. Kev has left
  1399. djorz has left
  1400. singpolyma has left
  1401. singpolyma has joined
  1402. Kev has joined
  1403. *IM* has left
  1404. Kev has left
  1405. Kev has joined
  1406. mh has left
  1407. hnsr.q has joined
  1408. mh has joined
  1409. singpolyma has left
  1410. singpolyma has joined
  1411. hnsr.q has left
  1412. asterix has left
  1413. asterix has joined
  1414. atomicwatch has left
  1415. marc0s has left
  1416. marc0s has joined
  1417. govanify has left
  1418. govanify has joined
  1419. marc0s has left
  1420. marc0s has joined
  1421. SteveF has left
  1422. hnsr.q has joined
  1423. govanify has left
  1424. govanify has joined
  1425. govanify has left
  1426. govanify has joined
  1427. marc0s has left
  1428. marc0s has joined
  1429. restive_monk has left
  1430. atomicwatch has joined
  1431. Half-Shot has left
  1432. Matthew has left
  1433. homebeach has left
  1434. uhoreg has left
  1435. Half-Shot has joined
  1436. Matthew has joined
  1437. homebeach has joined
  1438. uhoreg has joined
  1439. restive_monk has joined
  1440. wurstsalat has left
  1441. Tobias has left
  1442. Tobi has left
  1443. Tobias has joined
  1444. Tobias has left
  1445. Tobi has joined
  1446. Tobias has joined
  1447. marc0s has left
  1448. marc0s has joined
  1449. chipmnk has left
  1450. Seve has left
  1451. Seve has joined
  1452. goffi has left
  1453. Calvin has joined
  1454. Calvin has left