Tonight’s event is not on the XSF calendar, is this intended?
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MattJ
emus: I'll be there
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emus
nicomuc: no, but I have never dealt with it
ralphm:
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goffi
https://blog.keyoxide.org/xmpp-claims-vcard/ ==> maybe we should clean this vcard situation once for all, get rid of vcard-temp and IQ protocol in XEP-0292 to only use pubsub.
MattJ
That's not really the problem though, although the post makes it seem like it is
MattJ
The ultimate problem is that we are moving towards profiles that are not public by default, but non-public profiles are incompatible with keyoxide's requirements
MattJ
So it makes it sound like this is due to a "transition between standards", but it's more about "dropping the legacy world-readable profiles"
goffi
we can make them public with an open access model
MattJ
I've already contacted the author/developer and we're going to chat about how to solve keyoxide's requirements
goffi
but it would be better to be able to choose which data is public and which is not
MattJ
Sure. If you make them public then everything is fine.
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goffi
with pubsub encryption, it could be possible to have several vcards, the public one, and other one restricted to some users.
Zash
One obvious piece is that <DESC> has no equivalence in vcard4, so in Prosody we convert it to <note>, but that does have an equivalent <NOTE> element when converted back to vcard-temp.
Andrzej
simple solution would be to have 2 pubsub nodes with different settings for vcard4 (one public and second one for "friends")
goffi
You may not want to have your server admin to access some vcard data, pubsub encryption is a better option IMHO (also you have a single node, no need to look for the node id to use).
Andrzej
I'm not convinced to encrypted pubsub for vcard
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Zash
Encryption isn't going to solve this issue tho, quite the opposite.
goffi
Zash: why?
MattJ
The goal is to publish public information
Zash
Publish a proof to keyoxide and anyone who wants to verify, thus if anything signing may be helpful, but not encryption.
goffi
My proposal is to have several items, one bein plain text, and the other ones encrypted. You may want to have your nickname in public item, and phone number encrypted only for friends.
singpolyma
goffi: I have drafted https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1246 about gitting rid of the iq
goffi
Zash: for keyoxide stuff, you put in plain text item.
goffi
singpolyma: great
MattJ
goffi, so what solves it is having an "always public" part, not encryption
singpolyma
MattJ: ideally we wouldn't require this binary "world readable vs not" choice. There's no reason we can't send different vcards to different people, one for public, one with more for contacts at the very least
MattJ
singpolyma, the XEP editor (hehe) awaits your submission :)
singpolyma
MattJ: doesn't really need a xep, IMO, there's nothing against the current specs to do that
MattJ
I don't see how you can do it without a XEP
singpolyma
you mean in terms of how will the user configure what to send to who?
MattJ
or are you saying the server should hard-code rules about what is public and what is not?
Zash
singpolyma, feel free to steal and complete all of my WIPs from https://github.com/xsf/xeps/compare/master...Zash:xep-0292-updates
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singpolyma
MattJ: hard-coding would be the simplest way, but obviously not useful in all cases. If I were running a service for it I would expose an ad-hoc command that allowed this config. But for example something like snikket could also do it in the Web UI instead if that's preferred
Zash
And not all clients even have a way to view or edit vcards.
singpolyma
for sure, that's fine. not every clients needs to support every thing :)
singpolyma
Though I do want to add that to mine
Zash
complicates their use case tho
singpolyma
for keyoxide? I mean, their users are pretty techy so if there's a how-to for several well-known clients it's probably doable for them
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emus
XMPP End of the Year Talk 2022!
Starting in about 30 mins!
https://socialcoop.meet.coop/sam-pku-dud-niv
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Menel
I managed keyoxide with gajim.. But many people had indeed problems. Even generally tech affine people.
Zash
It was me! I broke it!
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emus
Hmm, I am not amused. One needs to activate a BBB session? we cannot join until someone "starts" it?
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moparisthebest
emus, is Sam around to activate it ?
emus
nope
emus
fun
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singpolyma
do we need another option? I can offer one if needed
emus
is it jitsi or BBB?
emus
I have one open already
emus
(an alternative)
singpolyma
if you have something already that's fine. I have access to another BBB
emus
can you get it ready? but please wait until I confirm to post before people run crazy.
moparisthebest
everyone post different room links in 3... 2...
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emus
my god, how I hate this...
MSavoritias (fae,ve)
Last time i used BBB i swear it had a start room without me setting..
moparisthebest
eh don't worry about it, these things are to be expected
emus
anyone able to login?
https://socialcoop.meet.coop/sam-pku-dud-niv
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moparisthebest
I'm on:
> The meeting hasn't started yet.
> You will automatically join when the meeting starts.
thanks goffi & mathieui for the pandoc suggestion it worked out well https://www.moparisthebest.com/slides/slides.sh
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emus
👌
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Ingolf
Thank you for the interesting event.
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emus
Con gusto!
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edhelas
Yeah, was nice, thanks 👍
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moparisthebest
singpolyma: re: host-meta, another argument for not SRV is I want a place to put the ECH secret
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moparisthebest
I need to just write it up to get the discussion going...
singpolyma
I'm just pretty grumpy about anything that involves http
moparisthebest
I don't actually blame you, it's just DNS and DNSSEC is so depressing
moparisthebest
We could have such nice things!!!
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singpolyma
Apparently conversations has DNSSEC support disabled by default because just asking for DNSSEC stuff can hang the connection on some DNS servers? I'm just reading some historical reports, not sure what actually causes the reported failure mode
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Zash
Stop enabling the middlebox vendors by putting everything in HTTP! 🧐️
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singpolyma
I mean, can get DNSSEC even in that case because of DoH
moparisthebest
Seriously though, does anyone think we can get an XMPP DNS record type widely adopted the same way the https one is?
moparisthebest
If someone wants to try I'll help, but I honestly can't see it succeeding
Zash
Just use the generic one that is identical to HTTPS?
Zash
Or even more evil, hijack the HTTPS RR type
Zash
Obviously the SVCB one will never work
singpolyma
Not a new record type, no. But between src and txt does anyone ever truly need a new type?✎
moparisthebest
iirc it didn't have everything we need, but I'll look again
Zash
SVCB? The one that lets you put arbitrary pseudo-RR types in it?
singpolyma
Not a new record type, no. But between srv and txt does anyone ever truly need a new type? ✏
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Zash
I bet you could do DNS over HTTPS-the-RR-type
moparisthebest
Those types are the ones that need defined, like https
Zash
Write "subtype X is a thing" and submit to IANA
Zash
I mean SVCB/HTTPS has A, AAAA, TLSA and some more stuff already
moparisthebest
Oh I'm sure we could get iana to approve it, but getting support in any DNS dashboards or anything other than bind seems impossible
moparisthebest
Meanwhile we can (unfortunately) use host-meta and get anything we need with secure delegation today
mjk
call the XEP dns-temp ;)
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Zash
We should just rename XMPP to IM-TEMP to really cement our infinite existence