XSF Discussion - 2022-12-31

hey, apparently Ara4n was involved in xmpp before the Great Project began, what was he up to here?

Who and when

Matthew, matrix founder

and, no idea but i'm told he was an xmpp dev?

He's right in this channel, ask him

Before my time though

well, apparently i just pinged him then :D

timezones withstanding

Maybe he comes back after Element goes bankrupt

Imagine it gets bought by Cisco and the FOSS parts and the protocol all need to be renamed to different, even more obscure terms, to avoid trademark litigation.

There is a 50/50 chance of exactly this happening

yeah, we shipped xmpp-based stuff before doing matrix

using ejabberd + xmpp.framework / strophe.js / smack, from memory

not sure i'd call that being 'an xmpp dev'; we never wrote XEPs or anything.

Does one need to write a XEP to be an XMPP dev :P

> Maybe he comes back after Element goes bankrupt charming. when will you realise that the enemy is the proprietary silos, if anyone, rather than me/matrix?

fucking depressing.

You mean VCs funding your solution are the enemy?

...

Note: pep. isn't an XSF member.

(Trying to see where this is relevant(?))

i think the point is to distinguish the “let’s shit on other open source projects” crew from the XSF.

hah

>> Maybe he comes back after Element goes bankrupt > > charming. when will you realise that the enemy is the proprietary silos, if anyone, rather than me/matrix? > > fucking depressing. Matthew: I do not wish for this to happen. Your blog post made it look like this might be an option though

Matthew, fwiw, I don't "shit on other open sources projects", I'm likely to "shit" on anything that is VC funded. But that's just me. Be it Matrix or XMPP or..

right folks, as much as I disagree with some technical and marketing choices the Matrix community did in the past and present, that's no reason to be unkind here.

Agreed

I agree.

Especially when xsf has a lot of problems with funding itself we shouldnt be pointing fingers.

We do? Never thought of lack of money as a problem for the XSF.

The XSF doesn't have problems funding itself. It just seem to be that people at the XSF are afraid of dealing with money, or looking for it

All the open source projects developed by 1-2 people in their free time on the other hand...

Or thinks it's not their problem. Which is something else

I didnt mean lack of money. I meant using and where that money is coming from problems.

Yes the XSF has a very strange relationship to money

Will we be able to book another conference room if/when the Cisco one isn't happening?

Who knows... Let's cross fingers for Cisco being an option

Matthew: > “let’s shit on other open source projects” If anything I guess it's about competing _specs_, as those obviously conflict with the interop goal and therefore make it even harder to compete with those real enemies. At least if you acknowledge the limitations of bridging.

But yes stupid bashing is probably just a sign of your success.

And also, « i think the point is to distinguish [..] from the XSF. », this isn't a thing at the XSF. People talking as "The XSF". Or it's very rare

pep., sender's intent vs. recievers perception though

better to make it clear

By saying something that is irrelevant? :/

I could have been a member and said exactly the same thing and it wouldn't have mattered since there was no talking "as The XSF"

I've seen some pretty wild anti-Matrix (sometimes pro-XMPP) stuff around online, and although it's not from "the XSF" I would be pretty disappointed if that kind of thing came from XSF members (or respected members of the community)

fwiw, I haven't started any of this, nor provoqued the answer in which we are all supposed to agree on a common enemy + name calling. But fine

I think pointing out that the matrix ecosystem is in huge parts depending on one single company and that this company is apparently (the source is their own blog post) having money problems is valid criticism. You don't have to be 'enemies' to point that out. Nor would I consider that 'shitting on' much less a personal attack on employees of said company Or at the very least it wasn't intended as such

I criticize the XSF far more often and I wouldn't consider myself an enemy of the xsf

criticism is fair, but I *was* already thinking the morning about whether I should call you out on "Maybe he comes back after Element goes bankrupt" being too snarky.

Personally it didnt come of as critisism too. But maybe that is just me.

I also think critisim involves being in favor of something that is important to one

gentlemen, new year is comin' chill out. Stop the critical thinkin session. Start the critical drinkin' session.

Just one thing: I request that if you have critical drinking sessions, that they happen away from the keyboard, for everyone's sake :)

Hmm a channel dedicated to drunken XMPP rants sounds pretty awesome

drunk text archived for eternity. How attractive that is hmmmm

I'm not sure if I should fasten, reference or attach an 👍 to that.

xmpp:show-me-yer-angle-brackets@muc.xmpp.org?join

oh, did i fall for fake muc