XSF Discussion - 2023-03-02

  1. pep.

    That looks cool

  2. deimos

    fwiw, i have their arch, pmos, and fdroid polo shirts

  3. singpolyma

    It's a neat idea. The logos are quite small and the shipping to Canada is unsurprisingly atrocious, so probably not for me heh

  4. moparisthebest

    They have zip up hoodies and non white t-shirts, I'm in

  5. moparisthebest

    $20 for shipping a $58 sweater from EU to US, that might be ok

  6. singpolyma

    Yeah, the $20 isn't great but then next to it it says usually $60 lol better get it quick!

  7. deimos

    quality costs money

  8. deimos

    go to zazzle to get your cheap logo-wear

  9. deimos


  10. Trung

    here's a shirt: https://store.manutd.com/en/manchester-united-cup-home-authentic-shirt-2022-23-long-sleeve-with-rashford-10-printing/p-1270583536005267+z-900-264030590?_ref=p-ALP:m-GRID:i-r0c0:po-0

  11. jcbrand

    Daniel I've updated XEP-0425 and marked it removed the "Draft" status

  12. jcbrand

    I'll look at the feedback for XEP-0424 some other time. Back to work...

  13. edhelas

    I start to have some performance/bandwidth issues with base64 avatar download, especially with gateways (that can bring MUC with hundreds of new avatars), not sure if there's some good solutions there :/

  14. pep.

    Don't download them / not all at the same time? You're only getting the hash first right? It's up to you then to download or not

  15. nicoco

    slidge is the new official XMPP client stress test :P. edhelas you could open an issue so that slidge provides avatar via http too, since XEP0084 allows it? but if it's for xep-0153 avatars, well, no luck.

  16. edhelas

    pep. That's what i'm doing, comparing if I already have them then sending them into a download list

  17. edhelas

    But I still have to receive/handle hundreds of base64 PNG/JPG files somehow, in the XMPP pipe

  18. pep.

    nicoco, that'd be giving out Movim user info to a third-party. That's actually one of the nice things with Movim, it acts as a proxy

  19. Link Mauve

    edhelas, a common optimisation I see clients for other protocols do, is to only download avatars, names, etc. when they are in view of the user.

  20. Link Mauve

    Leaving a spinner in their place before that.

  21. nicoco

    pep.: not necessarily? that would only be the case if we use 3rd party "legacy service URLs" as avatars sources, but slidge also acts as a proxy by downloading them and serving them via pubsub. for attachments slidge relies on the presence of a http server on the same host; it could also use the same "path" to provide downloadable avatars.

  22. nicoco

    or maybe I misunderstood what you meant?

  23. Link Mauve

    nicoco, how do you deal with the unknown time limits of these services?

  24. pep.

    Hmm ok yeah if slidge acts as the proxy. But hmm really, if Movim doesn't manage that many avatars I wonder how the server does it (or it's not really comparable?)

  25. nicoco

    Link Mauve: it's different for each service. some libs handle avoiding rate limiting automagically (implementing retries with random delays). for others I just accept that avatar fetching sometimes fail :). it has suprisingly not been that much of a problem for avatars which are often just publicly downloadable URLs that don't seem to be rate limited. if they have an etag I cache them on disk anyway, so that probably helps.

  26. nicoco

    jcbrand: there is no protocol for emoji reactions on emails, so I'll 👍️ here for taking my suggestions into account for XEP-0425. Thanks!

  27. pep.

    You can always use the fallback, "> [the whole email]\n👍"

  28. pep.


  29. nicoco

    I think the fallback is "👍\n[the whole email thread]"

  30. pep.

    I must have missed the update clarifying this behaviour

  31. MattJ

    I'm pretty sure it has always been this way, but you're on a newer version of email than most people

  32. jcbrand

    thanks nicoco

  33. ralphm

    Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Why is top-posting such a bad thing? Top-posting. What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

  34. Zash

    I am sad to report that that fight was lost, it's simply impossible to do proper quoting in Modern Email™ clients.

  35. Zash

    Also in Outlook.

  36. pep.

    ralphm, it works here because most XMPP clients will display text top-down :P

  37. singpolyma

    edhelas: something I do in a few places is throttle such a fetch list to only send the requests one at a time or two at a time or whatever and a small wait before the next one. That way you don't starve yourself while fetching

  38. singpolyma

    What's the biggest bottleneck for you? Simply decoding base64? I wonder if there's also some work you can background to make it not as big an issuu

  39. singpolyma

    What's the biggest bottleneck for you? Simply decoding base64? I wonder if there's also some work you can background to make it not as big an issue

  40. edhelas

    singpolyma yes I can delay that, I was more talking about the base64 itself inside the XML stream

  41. edhelas

    I'd prefer to have for example a way to request those things outside of the XML stream, HTTP or something else

  42. singpolyma

    I guess that makes sense in a web client. I'm working to move more stuff *in* to the XML stream usually

  43. Zash

    Open a secondary stream, don't send <presence>, but send potentially heavy but low-priority things there?

  44. Zash

    Hm, wait, can't do MUC with that

  45. singpolyma

    If stanza parsing is the bottleneck I guess throttling the fetches is probably the biggest help

  46. Zash

    Optimization tips: Don't For experts only: Don't, yet

  47. vanitasvitae

    > Optimization tips: > Don't > For experts only: > Don't, yet 😄

  48. mentos124


  49. nicoco

    I don't know if anybody did it before, but I replied to Masum Nishat who emailed standards@ with an implementation question, to suggest they come on jdev@.

  50. mentos124

    i love XMPP

  51. goffi


  52. goffi

    ^ interesting summary of the DMA workshop

  53. wurstsalat

    Oh that's a nice summary :)