https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0408.html seems to be on last call that ended 2021 according to the red text. I suppose some new status belongs there✎
Menel
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0401.html seems to be on last call that ended 2021 according to the red text. I suppose some new status belongs there ✏
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Daniel
There is no way to map an occupant id to the members, admins list is there?
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Zash
On its own, no
Zash
You'd have to observe <presence> or whatever
MattJ
I wondered recently about just inserting it into the affiliation responses
Zash
Outch, the O(n^not fun)
MattJ
I think we cache it thou... oh right, not for offline folk
Zash
affiliations ≠ occupants
Daniel
> You'd have to observe <presence> or whatever
Yes I was thinking about offline contacts
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Link Mauve
Also in XEP-0463.
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Zash
Hm, but they're based on bare jid?
Zash
Brain too full of OAuth to swap in another XEP
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Daniel
Yes they should be based on bare jid
Zash
Then it should be doable (and relatively cheap) to include anywhere we have affiliation
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Daniel
if we want occupantId to be the one stable thing that identifies people in muc it should probably be everywhere
Daniel
so I can map the different sources of "people who are in a muc" and merge them properly
Daniel
and look up the "real sender"
Zash
(jid, nick, occupant-id) tripplets everywhere
Ge0rG
(jid, nick, occupant-id, origin-id, stanza-id)
Daniel
I’m not the one who killed mix
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Zash
Ge0rG, fastening-context, version number?
Zash
Daniel, MIX relates to this how?
Ge0rG
MIX is dead?
Zash
Weren't we all going to implement MIX over the weekend?
Daniel
mix has stable participant ids by default
Daniel
no resource vs occupant id
Zash
I thought it had real JIDs for everyone by default, and some proxy service✎
Zash
I thought it had real JIDs for everyone by default, and some proxy service (not included) ✏
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Ge0rG
real JIDs are the most stable IDs
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Daniel
yes real jids are included too. but messages originate from room@service/participant-id
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Daniel
and this maps to the item id of the participant node if you want to look up more information
Zash
Invent some MUC join options, one of which would be to end messages from room@muc.service/occupant-id✎
Zash
Invent some MUC join options, one of which would be to send messages from room@muc.service/occupant-id ✏
Zash
Rewrite the nick into XEP-0172 elements or somesuch
Daniel
> Invent some MUC join options, one of which would be to send messages from room@muc.service/occupant-id
I could live with that
Zash
And then more and more MUC options until finally we have a "just use MIX" MUC option :)
Daniel
When I previously brought up something similar people argued that some clients might not support muc initiated nick rewrites
Zash
"Don't send presence" being another such option
Zash
Yeah, if we just do it without opt-in
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Zash
Feature flags sure ... moves some pain around
Daniel
I think it would have to be a channel wide setting. Otherwise you can't rely on that as the one who is parsing the messages
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Zash
Isn't that just "use MIX instead" then?
Zash
Wait nick rewrites? Isn't that a different thing
Daniel
Muc can tell you 'your resource (nick) is x now' instead of the one you tried to join with
Daniel
There could be a muc setting where the muc tells everyone your nick is occupant id now
Zash
I mean <presence><{muc}x><{fancy-new-options}swap-nicknames-and-occupant-ids/><//> (check disco first) and then you get a different kind of broadcasts
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Daniel
Ah
Daniel
Mhh maybe
Daniel
That sounds complicated
Daniel
Because it would have to change the resources in the MAM response too
Zash
Sure, yeah.
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Daniel
If people prefer something like that to mix I'm fine with it
Zash
I imagine it would be the same class of complexity as implementing MIX protocol on top of existing MUC code
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Peter Waher
Hello all. (Sorry for cross posting…) I’m experimenting a bit with bridging OpenAI chat and the XMPP network, to see what this can be used for. If anyone is interested to try, you can chat with xmpp:chatgpt@lab.tagroot.io. Image generation can be tested by chatting with xmpp:dalle256@lab.tagroot.io, xmpp:dalle512@lab.tagroot.io or xmpp:dalle1024@lab.tagroot.io.
For more info, or QR-codes to the above JIDs, https://lab.tagroot.io/Community/Post/OpenAI_integration_with_the_Neuron✎
Peter Waher
Hello all. (Sorry for cross posting…) I’m experimenting a bit with bridging OpenAI chat and the XMPP network, to see what this can be used for. If anyone is interested to try, you can chat with xmpp:chatgpt@lab.tagroot.io. Image generation can be tested by chatting with xmpp:dalle256@lab.tagroot.io, xmpp:dalle512@lab.tagroot.io or xmpp:dalle1024@lab.tagroot.io.
For more info, or QR-codes to the above JIDs, https://lab.tagroot.io/Community/Post/OpenAI_integration_with_the_Neuron ✏
Peter Waher
While the gateways above have minimal instruction, it is possible to fine-tune a model with up to 1 GB data using a dedicated instance it seems. It would be possible to make a bot, for instance, that can learn about all XEPs and then help people to find relevant XMPP-related information.
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Menel
a fun endevaor. did you also try to put it in a muc?
Peter Waher
I was thinking about it, but didn’t get a clear idea on how it would operate. It would be annoying if it inserted itself into everything. Perhaps it could stay silent, and only monitor communication (to learn) and inject a comment/response if asked directly (or via a private channel)
Menel
react only if mentioned first of course
moparisthebest
I have a markov chains XMPP bot, millions of dev hours in AI development, no use case that isn't also filled by markov chains from 1906, they have played us for absolute fools
pep.
Yet another fad that can get you money from VCs I guess
Menel
we could let the two bots talk to each other 😛️
moparisthebest
https://code.moparisthebest.com/moparisthebest/ash is the source, you can play with it in a few MUCs, one is xmpp:conversations-offtopic-reloaded@conference.trashserver.net?join
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mentos124
open source apps are the best
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Fishbowler
I've written some open source apps that can disprove that :)
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moparisthebest
Personal opinion: open source is required for an app to be good, but is not alone sufficient to be good, in fact nearly all software sucks :)