XSF Discussion - 2023-06-27

  1. Zash

    Libraries ought to use languages instead

  2. cal0pteryx

    We could (for example) ignore platforms when filterong libraries. Would that help? I could add an additional language filter in addition to that

  3. cal0pteryx

    ..and I need to add languages to the package details pages

  4. emus

    Or simpler, only show all for libraries. the list is not infinite big

  5. cal0pteryx

    That was my intention

  6. pep.

    https://chaos.social/@n0toose/110593475148424017 I expect this won't make much waves in this part of the network, but here it is. Matrix archiving public channels. shocked-pikachu.jpg

  7. edhelas

    The only bot that I accept on my server are the Russian spammy ones

  8. Ellenor Malik


  9. MattJ

    edhelas: a new XMPP meme in the making

  10. jonas’

    so the important question is: will this affect XMPP rooms via a bridge?

  11. jonas’

    is there a way to preemptively ban those bots?

  12. jonas’

    https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-public-archive/issues/47#issuecomment-1574978098 oh it does

  13. MattJ

    Yeah, it was already discussed in operators@ earlier

  14. jonas’


  15. jonas’

    I see

  16. MSavoritias fae.ve

    heh. funny in the context of libera wanting to remove the matrix irc bridge for being unmaintained

  17. MattJ

    jonas’: also regarding preemptive banning, note that the archive.matrix.org bot already joined here (probably because someone looked it up on the site)

  18. jonas’

    it is indeed

  19. Guus

    wading into off-topic territory: is automatically archiving things a new, global setting for all Matrix instances, or is it a configurable new policy per instance?

  20. Guus

    The web archive is currently not available, it seems: > We are reviewing the Matrix Public Archive to ensure that it doesn't break privacy expectations and have taken it down as a temporary measure while we conduct the investigation.

  21. Guus

    This being a bot makes it akin to someone writing an XMPP bot that joins any (public) channel that it knows of (crawling sjn maybe), starts recording stuff and posting that on a website somewhere?

  22. Guus

    That'd annoy me.

  23. lissine

    then it'd use those logs to train ML models...

  24. MattJ

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/06/26/xmpp-google - it turns out it's possible to be more wrong than I thought previously possible

  25. edhelas

    > All modern messaging protocols have some form of message persistence; instant messaging did not. With instant messaging you could only send a message to someone while they were logged in with the client app open and running. You can’t prove a negative, but I see no scenario where XMPP would have any relevance today, regardless of Google’s decisions a decade ago.

  26. Seve

    It just takes a quick look up on the Internet.. Yikes

  27. moparisthebest

    oof lol

  28. MattJ

    I don't recall which IM platforms supported offline messaging and which did not, but Jabber/XMPP has had it at least since the very early days (long before Google Talk)

  29. moparisthebest

    It's hard to attribute that much incompetence so I tend to lean towards malice

  30. MattJ

    People generally value their opinions and (inaccurate) memories very highly, that sufficiently explains most things

  31. edhelas

    > People generally value their opinions and (inaccurate) memories very highly, that sufficiently explains most things Maybe they have issue with their persistent memory sometimes. We call it Instant Publishing.

  32. Kev

    Very good :)

  33. singpolyma

    When I first started with XMPP see servers did not have offline messages, but that did not last long and was likely anachronistic servers already by then. IIRC one of my proprietary IM services also had no offline and got it about then. But it's weird to pretend the whole space stopped evolving in 2003. MSN ran until 2012, AIM until 2017, ICQ and XMPP are still online ! None of them looked the same at the end as they did in 2003 :P

  34. moparisthebest

    AIM was around until 2017 ???? See I have a bad memory and don't know things too I just don't make confident blog posts about it ;)

  35. Seve

    Exactly 😂

  36. singpolyma

    moparisthebest: Yup. I only know this because I was doing research for my talk. AOL got bought by Verizon and merged with Yahoo and then they finally turned off AIM

  37. Zash

    Ugh, more people being wrong and reinforcing each other in their wrongness, further rewriting history :(