XSF Discussion - 2023-07-18

  1. nicola

    Hi! Some news from Matrix: https://matrix.org/blog/2023/07/a-giant-leap-with-mls/

  2. Zash

    Oh, the news is that MLS has been published as an RFC?

  3. Zash

    Waiting for Someone™ to write up the XEP then! :)

  4. moparisthebest

    Last I looked matrix "implemented" it but with 2 changes, making it inoperable with anything else doing MLS, making it useless

  5. moparisthebest

    Wonder if that's been resolved or not

  6. MSavoritias fae.ve

    wut. i wonder if it is still true in context of mimi

  7. ike

    will MLS replace OMEMO?

  8. Zash

    Time will tell

  9. MSavoritias fae.ve

    we dont even implement latest omemo so 🤷

  10. MSavoritias fae.ve

    give it a decade or two

  11. moparisthebest

    I'm guessing at most OMEMO v3 will be based on MLS but yea who knows

  12. Zash


  13. ike


  14. Zash

    Such is the life of an XMPP developer

  15. Zash

    Gotta have something to make life interesting now that we've gotten away from the 5 different incompatible JingleFT versions! :D

  16. moparisthebest

    I have 0 expectations of any of these silos trying to actually interop with open networks in good faith

  17. lissine

    what id they are required to do it by law?

  18. lissine


  19. Zash

    EU is trying that, let's see how it plays out :)

  20. Daniel

    Part of what's holding back omemo v2 is lack of crypto libraries. If MLS becomes a thing a hypothetical omemo v3 based on MLS could be easier to implement

  21. Zash

    AIUI there are already MLS libraries.

  22. Zash

    I assume another part of what's holding back omemo v2 or anything is lack of user-visible benefit, tho if there's a big "you can't use reactions and OMEMO at the same time" warning that could change

  23. moparisthebest

    EU might force them to interoperate after all, but I'm sure they'll do it in the worst way possible, they can afford to burn millions of engineer hours making a terrible system work, we can't

  24. test4d

    watch this apple: "hey guys we support XMPP now" users: "really? your server doesn't really work with any client" apple: "yes really! we support RFC 6120!! uhh but for everything else we made our own extensions which can be found at apple.com/opensource/blah/blah :)))"

  25. Zash

    Still waiting for the FaceTime protocol to be published...

  26. test4d


  27. test4d

    also the DMA says nothing about Free Software, if i remember correctly

  28. Zash

    Software freedom is orthogonal to Open protocols

  29. test4d

    fair enough

  30. Zash

    IMO having open protocols is more important, as then you at least have the posibilty of writing free software implementing it

  31. test4d

    that's true

  32. test4d

    if Apple has a proprietary XMPP server, but it still adheres to XMPP, I could at least use a Free client

  33. Zash

    Unaware of iChat being XMPP?

  34. test4d

    didn't iMessage drop XMPP support a while ago?

  35. Zash

    I don't know, I don't follow Apple

  36. test4d

    I have to loosely follow apple because my sister uses an iPhone :(

  37. edhelas

    "Throw out XMPP from the chat system" "Goes back as the push notification system"

  38. edhelas


  39. mdosch

    image.png.jpg o.O

  40. test4d

    it has twice the picture!!

  41. edhelas

    Yes, I like confusing other clients

  42. edhelas

    Don't Trust The Extension

  43. test4d

    client trolling, very cool

  44. test4d

    you'd also be trolling servers because some servers try to determine the file type

  45. Zash

    it's actually a webp image?