XSF Discussion - 2023-11-14

Does muji support grouping?

As in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0338.xml

Do we have some kind of statistics to show what kind of clients and servers are currently deployed on the XMPP network ?

I don't think we can have that in a federated network.

https://stats.jabberfr.org/

Shodan?

But I think single server views on that are very limited

ages ago, there was this project that made a mesh of servers based on service discovery (I think) and a simple query. I'm not sure if it included that information, but could be easily adapted to do so.

I think I even have an Openfire plugin for that - looking...

> https://stats.jabberfr.org/ Thanks ! Indeed that just a view of the network. I would be interested to see also the servers statistics. ↺

https://search.jabber.network/stats

Thanks jonas’ !

_probably_ the most comprehensive server software survey of the federated(!) chat(!) network.

oh, that's nice jonas’ - never seen that

Fun to see Spectrum and biboumi in the top chart, XMPP is also about transport !

the number of unknowns surprises me

I can also run queries for software version numbers or restricted to domains which are "User Server"s if you'd like more of a deployment overview

jonas’ having software version detail could be interesting indeed, to see if admins are upgrating their servers or not for example ✏

This is what I was referring to earlier: https://github.com/guusdk/openfire-serverinfo-plugin - it's dead/abandoned.

Is the-federation.info still there?

Mostly ActivityPub tho iirc

FWIW the compliance tester says 43% ejabberd, 55% Prosody for 1200 domains where log in currently works

but this too is obviously very biased

but probably less biased than sjn

Do we have users subscribed/connected in the info somehow ?

Guus, regarding the unknowns (I just took a look): A lot are specialized components (upload, push, pubsub), but some are also main domains where people probably didn't load the plugin.

I bet there are *a lot* of openfire servers out there

but those are not people who use the compliance tester

also not in the federated network probably

I know that there a lot of Openfire servers out there, but I would not expect them to be in these stats.

they're largely one-off, closed domains.

the compliance tester has openfire at 0.5% - which I guess shows you how useless and biased that data is

biased, yes, useless, no.

exactly

just like jabber.fr has Conversations and forks at 50% - I don’t think that is even remotely representative of what people are really using

(Pidgin)

By the way, the top graph seems a bit large to my on this page https://compliance.conversations.im/server/movim.eu/ don't you think ?

But thanks for all the links :)

yeah the project is officially unmaintained

Daniel, we had Pidgin at a surprisingly high rate for quite long, it was more popular than Conversations until just a few years ago.

also, all data is biased

Although our data is also biaised, Conversations stays open 24h a day while Pidgin is usually only open when people are on their computer.

so a 24h max is probably what you want to look at

(or even 7d max)

I have some stats there as well, just counting the presences in my DB, also biaised https://mov.im/infos

ok. 'useless' was probably not fair. but be careful with what you do with the data

edhelas is on a quest to make people ingest raw json :)

> edhelas is on a quest to make people ingest raw json :) I can make a XML version if you prefer :p ↺

hehehe

RFC 6120 4.7.3 states: > For initial stream headers, the initiating entity MUST NOT include the 'id' attribute Is there something as a non-initial stream header? I'm assuming that stream headers after a SASL / STARTTLS restart are again 'initial'?

> edhelas: > 2023-11-14 11:36 (GMT+01:00) > Do we have some kind of statistics to show what kind of clients and servers are currently deployed on the XMPP network ? Good questions for tonight, even though it wont be a statistic

> jonas’: > 2023-11-14 11:41 (GMT+01:00) > https://search.jabber.network/stats This is great!

How many of us are planning to go to 37C3 in Hamburg? Do we want to register for an assembly?

We are starting the workshop in about 45 minutes, lobby is officially open in 30. Everyone interested welcome. Join: https://teamjoin.de/XMPPVisionandStrategicWorkshop https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/111405455575621613

Lobby is open

🙂

Starting soon

emus: Normally, there are some guys who inform that you must not spam all MUC rooms with an announcement and the result is that you are banned. Note: I report only the situation to you, communication is important.

Is it just me or do these links to the mailing lists all return a 404? https://xmpp.org/community/mailing-lists/

egnun, known and being worked on, ever so slowly

I see. Thanks.

egnun, looking to subscribe or for something in the archives?

Yes.

No, subscribing would be enough for now.

> List-Subscribe: <mailto:standards-join@xmpp.org> E.g. that method should still work, I hope.

> lbocquet: > 2023-11-14 09:08 (GMT+01:00) > emus: Normally, there are some guys who inform that you must not spam all MUC rooms with an announcement and the result is that you are banned. > Note: I report only the situation to you, communication is important. I know, but I hope in this case people forgive me

if i read the channel binding RFC it says right at the start that there are attacks against tls-unique for TLS 1.2

does this mean its discouraged to even implement tls-unique for 1.2

or does this attack somehow not apply to xmpp

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9266#name-introduction

I only remember that there was some attack that involved doing renegotiation a few times

> The "tls-unique" channel binding type defined in [RFC5929] was found to be susceptible to the "triple handshake vulnerability" [TRIPLE-HANDSHAKE] without the extended master secret extension defined in [RFC7627].

So, avoid renegotiation

It'd be handy to have that xmpp.net TLS data now, to know how widespread TLS 1.3 is.

Thanks you folks! https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/111410894859920061

Haha, we really put load to the jitsi server today: https://stats.adminforge.de/d/000000022/teamjoin3a-jitsi-meet?orgId=3&refresh=30s