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debacle
edhelas goffi and the rest of the "social crowd": Is there a MUC for social XMPP similar to the IoT one?
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goffi
not that I'm aware of.
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goffi
I guess for now, here of jdev@ are the best places, the social related traffic is not big (yet?).
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debacle
goffi It's a question about standards: In Jabber we have avatar image (how many standards are there and which is "current" one?), which can be used as "profile image", but social networks (Mastodon, Twitter, Movim) also have a "header image". I wonder, if that is already standardised in a (proto) XEP?
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debacle
Header image is typically much larger than profile image and shown in far less places than an avatar, esp. on an "orginal page" or homepage.
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goffi
Can't we use vcard4 for that somehow?
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debacle
goffi I'm not sure, if we want a large image in a vcard.
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Zash
I'd rather not have any images in vcard4 when we have '84 that can deal with that more efficiently.
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goffi
I was thinking more about a link than the encoded image. Is there any other XEP that we could use for this kind of data? Something PEP based maybe?
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debacle
Zash Can I have multiple avatars with 0084? And $client just uses, what fits best?
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Daniel
debacle, I think the idea is generally that it is the same avatar in 84 and client picks based on format and resolution
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pep.
It's not possible in 0084 to define a role for the image though right?
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pep.
It's just "an avatar" whatever the size
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debacle
Daniel Sounds reasonable. pep. With a specific, explicite "role", it would even be better.
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Zash
0084 or a variant thereof with roles would be nice
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debacle
If somebody has a header image, but not a profile image, clients would try to use the header image as avatar, which gives probably very ugly results.
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debacle
"header image" and "profile image" are Mastodon lingo. Not sure, if they are defined in AP or if they make sense in XMPP.
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goffi
XEP-0084 doesn't seem to have anything to specify something else than the usual avatar.
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Zash
0084 does support URLs, so if you either upload somewhere persistencly or re-upload a thing every now and then...
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goffi
You can use size to choose, but a well-know "role" would be better.
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debacle
I'ld love to see an XMPP solution, not an HTTP breakout :-)
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debacle
0084 + role sounds beautiful.
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Zash
84 but add `#${rel}`, like `urn:xmpp:avatar:metadata#profile+notify` ?✎ -
Zash
84 but add `#${rel}`, like `urn:xmpp:avatar:metadata#header+notify` ? ✏
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goffi
can't we add a `role` metadata? It's stable but not final, and this is a non breaking change (just default to normal avatar).
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MattJ
And what will clients that don't understand 'role' do?
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goffi
business as usual.
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Zash
84 with multiple different images is currently undefined I think
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MattJ
It seems they will likely accidentally use the header as an avatar
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Daniel
I think at least it would have to be in a different namespace
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Zash
Does the format need to be different?
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goffi
there is an example with multiple images: html_redirect_dict = { "actor": "/", "item": "/b/{item}" }
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Zash
As above, I think it's probably enough to put 84 data in a separate node (pair?)
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MattJ
I lean towards a different node too, it's backwards compatible and doesn't waste the time of clients that don't use it
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goffi
sorry for the bad copy/paste: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0084.html#examples-multiple
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Zash
goffi, that is meant to be different resolutions of the same image
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goffi
you mean a new XEP? Fine, but what if an other "role" is needed, we do yet another XEP with a new namespace?
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Daniel
you could design the new xep with role support in mind
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goffi
If we use a new namespace, we can add a `role` metadata this time
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goffi
yes exactly
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Daniel
if you think there will be multiple roles needed in the future
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goffi
I don't think so, but I rather anticipate this time.
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Kev
A different namespace with the same syntax/semantics isn't a particular hardship, is it?
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Kev
I mean, planning for extension that you don't think you need, when there's already a sensible path to extension if you do, doesn't seem necessary to me.
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goffi
it's a new XEP each time, and if tomorrow we need "footer" image in addition to "header" one, I think it's a pity to have to make 2 xeps when we could have anticipated with only one.
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Zash
Beware of premature genericness too!
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MattJ
Add 'role' into the new one, I think it's fine to separate the user's profile picture (which is shown in a bunch of places) from other resources that might be shown on their profile
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Kev
> it's a new XEP each time, and if tomorrow we need "footer" image in addition to "header" one, I think it's a pity to have to make 2 xeps when we could have anticipated with only one. But you just said you didn't think we'd need another role :)
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goffi
for now, but who knows in 5 years. If we had a "role" in the first place in XEP-0084 we wouldn't have this conversations.
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goffi
and it's cheap to add a simple metadata field for that.
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Zash
is it cheap to send that to every current client that doesn't understand it?
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goffi
Why would I send this to client that doesn't understand it? We're talking about a new XEP to extend XEP-0084 right?
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goffi
not modifying XEP-0084 itself.
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Zash
So separate node then?
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goffi
yes, but this type with an extra "role" field to anticipate futur.
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goffi
this time*
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Zash
If you put the role into the pubsub node, you get the benefits of pep +notify
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goffi
basically `urn:xmpp:avatar:data#extra` (or whatever) = XEP-0084 syntax + "role" metadata.
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Kev
You certainly don't want to shove different roles within a single PEP node where you expect clients to not all be interested in the same roles.
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goffi
ah right, I was thinking about URLs, but you can encore with XEP-0084. Would it be possible to have a XEP to specify that we can use `urn:xmpp:avatar:data#<any_role>` once for all?
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goffi
encode*
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Zash
So, what I suggested above then?
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goffi
Zash: yes, but with open suffix.
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Zash
I must have been unclear then, because that is what I was thinking
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goffi
alright, we agree then :)
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Zash
:)
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goffi
ah yes, reading back I've missed the `#${rel}` thing
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Kev
Although just specifying 'and this can have any value' seems of limited use to me, as to expect to interop you need an enumeration of the values to be interested in.
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Zash
registry? :)
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Kev
Right.
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Kev
Although an in-XEP registry seems easier than having a 'real' registry.
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Zash
Sure.
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Zash
Specific recommendations for aspect ratios etc
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Kev
And unless I'm being dense, you could reasonably extend 84 for this, if it's the only change being made.
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Kev
Although a new XEP is also not harmful, and maybe easier.
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jonas’
11:28:27 Kev> Although an in-XEP registry seems easier than having a 'real' registry. wouldn't that require a council round-trip on every iteration?
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Kev
Well, if Council are subsuming the Editor role anyway...
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Zash
Thought: embedded registries in XEPs?
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Zash
Like, includes
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singpolyma
I pretty much agree with the early part of this discussion (multiple avatar images, choose by size) but it's worth noting movim already has an implementation of this and it uses a second node
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debacle
Is there of a (standard?) way, how an admin of a server (admin@foo) can send a subscription request on behalf of a user (julia@foo) to any JID (romeo@bar)?✎ -
debacle
Is there a (standard?) way, how an admin of a server (admin@foo) can send a subscription request on behalf of a user (julia@foo) to any JID (romeo@bar)? ✏
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Ge0rG
no
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singpolyma
since you had it written as (standard?) way I will say standard, no, way, depends on server
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debacle
Thanks!
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nicoco
Edhelas implemented a banner image in movim debacle, I think this is what you're looking for
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edhelas
Yup, it's basically the Avatar XEP, but on another node✎ -
edhelas
Yup, it's basically the Avatar XEP, but on another PEP node ✏
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debacle
nicoco edhelas My movim account has a header image / banner image, of course :-) I want to use it for my future™ fediverse account (based on Libervia AP gateway).
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debacle
edhelas What is the name of the PEP node?
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edhelas
debacle https://github.com/movim/movim/blob/master/src/Moxl/Xec/Action/Banner/Get.php#L17
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pep.
edhelas: "technically" this isn't (standard) legal as urn:xmpp is managed by the xsf. You can do movim.eu:banner (or what was it again?)✎ -
edhelas
Ah, oops, sorry !
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pep.
edhelas: "technically" this isn't (standard) legal as urn:xmpp is managed by the xsf. You can do xmpp:movim.eu:banner (or what was it again?) ✏
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edhelas
Will try to change it, actually that would maybe push me to write a XEP and ask for a proper urn
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debacle
edhelas Yes, a XEP! ;-)
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edhelas
Finishing some stuff before :p Moving to a new house.
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edhelas
By the way I got some feedback today from the NLNet guys, they have a loootttt of requests to process, so it might take a few more weeks for those that are waiting for their answers.
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Guus
I had the same message from NLNet
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singpolyma
Maybe I'm glad I got sidetracked and didn't finish my application 😅
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goffi
edhelas: can you have a look at the discussion earlier today? If you are already using XEP-0084 then you just have to change the node to `urn:xmpp:avatar:[meta]data#header` and we're good.