XSF Discussion - 2024-01-18

  1. emus

    A kind reminder to XMPP projects to list ideas if they want to participate at GSoC 2024. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Google_Summer_of_Code_2024

  2. Fishbowler

    Argh. I've had a "Your subscription has been disabled on the members@xmpp.org mailing list" again, apparently due to bounces. I've created an account on Postorius which has picked up my existing subscriptions and I've re-enabled them. If this happens again, will Postorius give me some feedback on the bouncing?

  3. Alex

    Fishbowler, just got a couple of emails regarding this. You are not the only member that got disabled

  4. Fishbowler

    Suspect it will have been triggered by the GSoC email putting some folk over a threshold. I've been able to self-serve a solution, I think

  5. Daniel

    receiving your own initial presence should mean that all offline messages have been received, no? is this actually specificied somewhere?

  6. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0160.html doesn't seem to say that explicitly at least

  7. Daniel

    neither does the rfc I think

  8. Daniel

    but it is a thing that servers do? I'm not imagining this?

  9. Zash

    rfc6121 just refers to xep-0160

  10. Daniel

    I wonder how else one would best determine the end of offline message delivery. a ping? stream managment <r/>?

  11. Zash

    From reading Prosody's mod_presence, I'm not sure if it reflects initial presence after offline messages

  12. Zash

    Yeah it reflects back first, then broadcasts, then offline messages.

  13. Zash

    Yeah it reflects back first, then broadcasts your presence to contacts, then offline messages.

  14. Zash

    Daniel, why do you need to know?

  15. singpolyma

    Pretty sure there is no way to tell offline messages apart from live ones

  16. Zash

    Does there need to be a difference vs delayed messages that happened to be delayed for some reason so they're delivered just as you come online?

  17. Daniel

    Yes I have a bunch of incoming a/v calls

  18. Daniel

    And I want to wait till the end of the queue to make a ring/no ring decision

  19. Daniel

    Instead of having a bunch of propose/retract that all cancel each other out

  20. singpolyma

    Bind2 and disable offline messages, heh

  21. Daniel

    For users that don't have MAM

  22. Daniel

    It already doesn't really happen on a lot of MAM setups

  23. Zash

    So rfc6121 does talk about broadcasting initial presence to contacts before broadcasting to your own resources including the originating client, but it's not clear that it must happen in that order.

  24. Zash

    Nothing about offline messages there tho

  25. Zash

    Daniel, while hacky, a ping (199 or 198) after initial presence should do it. Postponing a short timeout every time a message comes in (especially a <delay>'d one) might be sensible too.

  26. Daniel

    yeah i'll probably just do the ping

  27. Zash

    Do we have somewhere to make a note for if we ever do a rfc6121bis ?

  28. Zash

    or maybe xep-0160 update?

  29. Zash

    or deprecate offline messages in favor of mam!

  30. Zash

    and then go full circle with the per-device delivery tracking future thing

  31. Daniel

    the "problem" with MAM in it's current form is that we don’t have a way to remove messages from the server in a timely manner if/when all clients have received it

  32. Daniel

    that's the main reason some of my customers still use offline messages

  33. Zash

    That's what can be enabled via {SASL,BIND}2 device tracking :)

  34. Daniel

    yes. hopefully. that's why i said "in it's current form"

  35. Zash

    Right :)

  36. Zash

    I guess the rest of the problem that we don't really have a point where a connection is ready is losing relevance, being mostly about the async delivery of presence from remote servers that can take a while to settle.

  37. mdosch

    Who is going to tell stpeter that nlnet already funded several XMPP projects?

  38. Zash

    Did you just?

  39. mdosch

    Not sure, is he reading here?

  40. Daniel


  41. Daniel

    The members list. Got it

  42. mathieui

    Is there still no way to get re-added to the members list after mailman took me out?

  43. singpolyma

    mathieui: sure, any admin can add you. I don't think we allow public signup to the list

  44. Fishbowler

    I was able to register an account on https://mail.jabber.org/postorius/ this morning, using my registered email address and re-enable myself.