XSF Discussion - 2024-08-10

I appreciate all the feedback I got here and elsewhere, I have updated https://www.moparisthebest.com/against-silos-signal/ and hopefully addressed it all, please give another look and let me know if not

even the CSS issue Guus found, though just by updating my theme :D

Mopar you darn “cargo cultist” you! /sarc Jokes aside, you have penned an excellent piece here. Sometimes being an “expert” interferes with one’s common sense. The only “typo” I might address is “e2e” I think you mean “E2EE”.

As long as nobody writes e2ee encryption 🙂

> XMPP vs. Matrix https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41200028

its funny how this being the orange site i dont need to click to know what it is XD

Hello everyone

Can help me

i dont understant about the use server connection

Strangely, there was barely any (HN) interest in this post I made about a week ago. > The Quick and Easy Guide to Jabber/XMPP https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41134533

fugata, I don't think HN is the best target audience for that kind of post. It's a site run by a startup incubator.

Lol every now and then I'll read hn comments and immediately regret it

> I think it's time XMPP moved past XML, like maybe to json or something... I plan to try this one day Cool story buddy I'm on the edge of my seat

> fugata, I don't think HN is the best target audience for that kind of post. It's a site run by a startup incubator. I'm not sure how that's relevant? It's not like all users are startup people, nor is it true that people who run or work for startups are particularly predisposed to dislike xmpp vs anyone else ↺

There's no AI nor blockchain nor VR built in, and no JSON :(

> Lol every now and then I'll read hn comments and immediately regret it > >> I think it's time XMPP moved past XML, like maybe to json or something... I plan to try this one day > Cool story buddy I'm on the edge of my seat one suggested yaml xD

singpolyma, I was more thinking about the end user focus. But sure, no absolutes.

I probably didn't use a sufficiently provocative title. Like "Why you should drop everything and switch to XMPP this instant". ✏

That too!

And you forgot to have a sockpuppet post some controversial opinion as first comment that everyone else had to disagree with :)

😅

>> I think it's time XMPP moved past XML, like maybe to json or something... I plan to try this one day > Cool story buddy I'm on the edge of my seat That would hurt extensibility, right?

Without https://www.moparisthebest.com/images/jsonschema.jpg it would :)

Sure was nice for Venezuela and Russia to do this in support of my blog post https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/9/24217008/signal-blocked-venezuela-russia

The Indian government banned Element and Briar some time ago 🤔 They could just as well ban XMPP as a whole - I doubt technical measures (like federation) are much help against abusive states. ✏

They are a huge help, as you only need to connect to 1 server (any server) and you suddenly have access to the whole network

Does signal support connecting on an .onion address? Many XMPP servers do. Along with many other ways, oppressive govts can't ever block them all without blocking the whole internet (and even then... Satellites/radio/etc

> There's no AI nor blockchain nor VR built in, and no JSON :( Xml was the blockchain from back then, far more overused and abused. Xmpp is one such example. ↺

And don't forget to vote, or use whichever box is appropriate in your particular dystopia.

> Does signal support connecting on an .onion address? Many XMPP servers do. Along with many other ways, oppressive govts can't ever block them all without blocking the whole internet (and even then... Satellites/radio/etc There's no practical difference to the end user if they connect to a clearnet website via tor or an onion service. ↺

kurisu: the difference is the clearnet way is blocked by their govt and the .onion service is not

>via tor

Also there's no way to distinguish xmpp traffic in general from other kinds of traffic. There are ways to detect many popular deployments but it's always possible to use a mode that can't be distinguished

Tor is one of those ways, but you don't need that extreme to prevent blocking

Though it'll be cat and mouse and they find and block each server you use over time

Right, servers/clients can be as creative as they want with their c2s methods, while still keeping contact with the entire federated network

In practice Conversations just outright refused to work with any server I tried on my uni network the admins of which I am sure never even heard of xmpp. Maybe it was because of starttls.

Probably they blocked 5222 and no server you tried was on an allowed port

kurisu, did you try complaining to the network admins?

why when I cold just enable vpn. They wouldn't rush in to unblock something that probably only one person ever used on their network in that entire uni's history lol

How do you know you're the only one? Why would the admins do anything if nobody says anything?

>How do you know you're the only one? Just being realist

If it were some university in europe I could expect at least one other person to have used xmpp at some point in their history

Well suppose you're not the only one, and the others think the same thing.

> In practice Conversations just outright refused to work with any server I tried on my uni network the admins of which I am sure never even heard of xmpp. Maybe it was because of starttls. kurisu: this, except s/uni/work/, was the reason I created and implemented '368 and why my server listens on 443, conversations and other clients have just worked from every network since... ↺

yup, here one of the xmpp blocked in EU universities victims (in the past) ✏

> yup, here one of the xmpp blocked in EU universities victims (in the past) Universities don't block xmpp. But rather, their firewall has a small set of ports allowed, and xmpp ports aren't in that set.

From my experience it is often they allow every port or only 53,80,443

and 5228

occationally email c2s ports

Ah yes forgot the mail ports. websites and mail... That's all there is

and ironically, google / apple push notification services (xmpp-derived)

Does this port blocking even have security benefits or is it more like superstition?

Superstition

Security might be a stong word. But it will lessen non well educated people using something like torrents in the network etc. ✏

Seems my university was not hostile. I remember using xmpp there.

I don't think anyone thinks "I'm going to block XMPP" rather they are sold a pack of lies by a "security" vendor and set up a "firewall" for "security" and it blocks everything but https

and then they receive a fancy diploma-looking paper saying "ISO-something-or-other Certification"

Correct, I call it "security by checkbox"

[x] installed security appliance

Now we are secure! My work here is done.

Server connection? For xmpp or jabber

Can help me ?

Roloi: I don't think I understand your problem, can you describe it in detail?