XSF Discussion - 2025-10-28

> before agreeing on a muc config dataform, i'd like to ask. Can servers send presence exclusively to mods already? my question would be whether a client will accept it anyways ↺

https://xmpp.org/2025/10/towards-secure-and-interoperable-healthcare-chat/ so is this like a "the dutch government should work with the XSF" or "the dutch government IS working with the XSF?"

_should_

that's what i thought

would be good ✏

EU needs more open standards. i don't really care if it's matrix or xmpp. more care that use of open standards is sort of pushed into law 😜

Ack. Spread the word!

or at least upvote and boost!

For _any_ XMPP project, this may be a good opportunity to both boost that message as well as showcase your own strenghts, in some kind of social media post of your own.

is a public MUC considered as social media By Law?

depends on the law, the jurisdiction, and the judge

(you'll have to ask a real lawyer)

Is there a jurisdiction that has a law with a legal definition of what constitutes a social media?

I'll have to check on that

> depends on the law, the jurisdiction, and the judge not exact science then ...which history has shown that is problematic ↺

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/1630/text

I am not a lawyer but this is what congress.gov defines it

(This law applies to US)

I'm not a lawyer in the US .. but Im heavily inclined to understand that, in that particular case, the Bill defines "social media" as it should be interpreted "by FCC" and only in to the extent of Bill requirements

1) "To require the Federal Trade Commission to conduct a study regarding social media use by teenager"

2) *In this Act*, the term “social media platform” *means* ✏

That is to say: "In order to comply to the requirements imposed by the Senate to the FCC, "social media" will mean ...

That would make it an _ad-hoc_ definition .. at least as far as I understand it

Apart from jurisdictino and law, the application also is important. I've seen MUCs used for purposes not related to chat, so that wouldn't come close to a 'social media' definition. What's the underlying concern that causes you to wonder wether a MUC constitutes as social media?

MUC as a technology obvisouly isn’t social media. but i wouldn’t be surprised if some juristrictions would consider "public channels" aka the thing that s.j.n finds you, social media, with all the responsiblities in terms of moderation and illegal content

if it wouldn’t be flying under the radar because xmpp in that regard is entirely irrelevant

> iirc this was discussed before but just got brought up in gajim@ again... > > any thoughts or pre-existing work (maybe in gc3?) about moderators getting JID of a message sender in a MUC with presence disabled? do we just need an IQ to request JID given an occupant-id or what? MattJ: as resident gc3 guru do you have thoughts on this (a bit of relevant discussion followed) ↺

> MUC as a technology obvisouly isn’t social media. but i wouldn’t be surprised if some juristrictions would consider "public channels" aka the thing that s.j.n finds you, social media, with all the responsiblities in terms of moderation and illegal content This is the most probable scenario .. either that or it falls under the same provisions established for ISP's ↺

i'm just wondering what it is coz personally i am afraid as there are so many Law being establish in such a rapid pace around the term "social media" without truly a definition of how one can point at something and say with certainty that this or not "social media" if public MUC is considered "social media" then collecting data of occupant is a must due to some juristriction and doing that over XMPP or tcp/ip or physical life is impossible then i'm wondering what the fuck are these people doing really being politicians.

well they don't have any useful skills what else do you want them to do?

moparisthebest: in my country they are pretty good at money laundry, tax evasion, fiscal fraud, deviating money from the tax arks into their own patrimony and a large array of fraudulent activities

i've got in touch with saghul and we'll co-run the decentralised comms room

which looks to be Sun morning

Sounds good. Just half day though? That's a bit sad

That's good news Matthew!

yeah, worried that half a day isn't going to be remotely enough

Provide Red Bull to speakers and half their speaking time.

just turn the playback speed up to 1.75x; i'm sure there's a button somewhere for it

> so i think there's basically overlap with the trad RTC devroom, and the ~trad Matrix devoom, and so i'm looking for interest in co-running it What and how are things run? I might go to FOSDEM, but don't know much about it... ↺

Trung, if you are really interested in the difficulties behind establishing a legal definition of social networks, I found you a really interesting article ( albeit short and a tad shallow for a legal article ) about a recent ruling from the Brazilian Supreme Court that exposes some of the problematics behind it

Still a pretty decent article tho ..

>> depends on the law, the jurisdiction, and the judge > not exact science then ...which history has shown that is problematic Could a layman definition be considered, as something to promote worldwide? ↺

gnemmi: go on then share it

Sure: https://www.conjur.com.br/2025-jun-30/o-supremolegislativo-e-a-responsabilidade-das-redes-sociais/

fosdem have kindly increased it to a full day.

Awesome